New way of testing (Black Belt Magazine - Aug 2007)

[still learning]

Hello, There is an interesting way of test for Black Belts as well as other ranks. Did you get a chance to read it?

Makes alot of sense. The Ulltimate Black Belt test in UBBT.

In a year a person has to perform a variety of tasks and challenges to create a peronal transformation, test can be customizes.

For instance: 1,000 acts of kindness, complete 1,000 rounds of sparring, 1,000 rounds of single form, 52,000 push-ups, learn Jujutsu to blue belt, 25 hours of boxing, meditate 15 minutes a day, read dozen of books , spend a day in a wheel chair, ...the idea is perfection of the charcter of it's participants. (within 13 months).
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Each person would be require besides class time? will need to do a variety of training, and on their own time. Each person will need to keep track of their own progress. In class the Teacher will need to monitor their individual progress.
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In stead of one day of testing.....this is a long term testing1

What are your thoughts? (Please read the Black Belt Magazine -Aug 2007 issue for more explanation.

Aloha

 

[Mr. E]

Sounds to me like a better test for accepting someone as a student than a black belt.

If someone wants to learn how to use some of the skills and weapons I know, I would like to be sure that they are not some psycopath or flake. It would be a waste of my time in the later case, and a disaster in the first. I would like to know that they are not going to waste my time or abuse what I show them before they are about a black belt in terms of skill already.

So maybe this type of thing should be used before accepting a student and not just as they are about to reach black belt. Unless you depend on the money from teaching, it seems a good way to keep the creeps away.

 

[Kacey]

I see no real purpose in requiring that type of thing for BB testing. For leadership positions, perhaps - but what happens to a person who cannot complete the requirements due to job and family circumstances? Is that person barred from becoming a black belt? What about the person who doesn't have the time to reach blue belt in Jujutsu, or doesn't want to cross-train? Etc....

I've seen this before, and I don't like it any more now than I have in the past.

 

[ppko]

There is no need for it at least from my point of view you are always testing weather you know it or not

 

[Em MacIntosh]

Numbers, numbers, numbers...BB is not so simple. Give any of us the time off to persue this test and we could meet it's requirements. It is much more important for a master to use his intuition to decide whether a student is ready for shodan. You can have all the skill there ever was but without proper perspective, that skill is useless. I like the old method. Prepare for the big day, get scrutinized to death, pushed to the physical limit and possibly fail only to come back at it harder. Seperate the men from the boys.

 

[Kacey]

Numbers, numbers, numbers...BB is not so simple. Give any of us the time off to persue this test and we could meet it's requirements. It is much more important for a master to use his intuition to decide whether a student is ready for shodan. You can have all the skill there ever was but without proper perspective, that skill is useless. I like the old method. Prepare for the big day, get scrutinized to death, pushed to the physical limit and possibly fail only to come back at it harder. Seperate the men from the boys.

Uh... what about those of us who don't fit into the men/boys category?

 

[Em MacIntosh]

I'm afraid I can't help you there...

 

[Brandon Fisher]

I am not in real favor of it. To many people who could be really good black belts may not be able to complete the requirements because of other things that must take the front seat.

 

[Jdokan]

Why are the tests getting to be more rigorous than than were in the past? Now that being said I know in my recent organization testing was reduced from 6 hours to 3-4 hrs...No more hazing, etc.. basic warm up exercises then 20-30 of every strike you know from 3-4 stances....then ALL your material...20 of....
That seemed to suffice for our founders...why are we trying to make things more difficualt than that....Is it the all mighty buck that has led to creating more and more material to learn...needing us to stay taking more and more lessons... Is it our egos that need more and more??? Not happy with mastering the basics???
I am not in favor of this reported testing....not having read the article I am going on what has been printed here so......

 

[zDom]

Testing for a blackbelt in a martial art or a blackbelt in sainthood?

 

[Andrew Green]

For instance: 1,000 acts of kindness, complete 1,000 rounds of sparring, 1,000 rounds of single form, 52,000 push-ups, learn Jujutsu to blue belt, 25 hours of boxing, meditate 15 minutes a day, read dozen of books , spend a day in a wheel chair, ...the idea is perfection of the charcter of it's participants. (within 13 months).

I don't think that tests or shows character at all. Those sorts of things are all nice, but once they are made requirements the kindness of doing them disappears. Sort of like criminals doing community service is not because they are good people, but because it is required of them.

Call it quantum indeterminacy for character testing, as soon as people know they're being tested, they will behave differently.

I think the best way to test people is under pressure. If they are tired, beat up and have someone trying to knock them down can they maintain a clear head and act intelligently? Can they keep pushing with everything they got when they got nothing left?

In a no-pressure environment people can almost always act in the way that they are expected too, put them under pressure and you get to see what they really got.

 

[seasoned]

I don't think that tests or shows character at all. Those sorts of things are all nice, but once they are made requirements the kindness of doing them disappears. Sort of like criminals doing community service is not because they are good people, but because it is required of them.

Call it quantum indeterminacy for character testing, as soon as people know they're being tested, they will behave differently.

I think the best way to test people is under pressure. If they are tired, beat up and have someone trying to knock them down can they maintain a clear head and act intelligently? Can they keep pushing with everything they got when they got nothing left?

In a no-pressure environment people can almost always act in the way that they are expected too, put them under pressure and you get to see what they really got.

Reaching the mind through the body. Very nice AG, I agree completely.

 

[bushidomartialarts]

I'm all in favor of the concept, and in fact when Mr. Callos first announced the idea 4 years back it changed how we do black belt testing at my school.

In my own not terribly humble opinion, Black Belt should include all those things. It's not just about combat ability and physical fitness.

To Andrew's point, a lot of people feel that if you do something kind or selfless for a selfish reason it invalidates the kindness. That's a philosophical debate, and an interesting one. For me, we are the sum total of our actions. I don't care much for good intent vs. bad intent. A serial killer who goes out and builds a house for Habitat for Humanity has still gone and built a house. He's done more good than a dozen people watching TV who want to go out and help. Besides, there's a great deal of evidence to support that right action for wrong reason can change us fundamentally into better people.

Now, the UBBT as it exists right now is unfortunate. It costs a lot of money to enroll and more to participate. Also, the requirements are so demanding that I'm not sure anybody who's not a full-time martial artist would be able to do it. On the other hand, the half dozen people I know who have participated rave nonstop about how great it was.

Overall, I'm all for it. I'd like to see more schools demand more of their black belts. There are a lot of bozos out there making the rest of us look bad.

 

[seninoniwashi]

I think the idea is an exceptional idea. I have met a great deal of higher ranks that could use some inner self transformation and humility. In addition to the memorization of techniques, kata and founding principles of the art, I would like to see more of this throughout school testing. It would better help to blaze a trail for promotion and give a student a plan to follow.

 

[seninoniwashi]

Good point Mr. E. I have heard of several schools who don't even give a student their white belt until they prove their character in the school over the course of the first few months. I always thought this was a cool way of doing things - if you're in it for the traditional aspect it would be the best way to sift out the undedicated but if you're running the school for business it could be hard to retain revenue.

 

[still learning]

Hello, Thank-you for sharing your thoughts on this "long term testing idea"

Question is "What should a person be able to do/perform at testing? What would requirements be to BE A BLACK BELT?

Not talking about your school...BUT in the eyes of everyone who see's you wareing a Black belt. What do people expect of YOU?

Today anyone can get a Black belt....but how many can really fight back?

The idea of long term testing is to insure you have the strenghts and repetitions to ingrain in your mind and body.

Maybe not for everyone? Navy Seals, Green berats,Rangers, and special forces? .....to become one...one needs long term training and prepareness!

Any way...this is something to look at and think about? ..........Aloha

 

[Sukerkin]

Excellent points made by many here :tup:.

To my mind this links in to the old, old argument about what a Black Belt actually means. I see a lot of posts around the Net that seem to think it's the end point and much disdain for the opinion that it is rather merely the end of the beginning.

Obtaining shodan, for me, meant that I had shown that I could learn what sensei had taught me and that I had the commitment to persevere thus far.

At no time (in either Lau Gar or Muso Jikiden Eishin Ryu) was I under any illusion of having done anything else by BB stage. I think of it as being analagous to getting your first degree in any subject (yeah, mixed academic and MA pun attack! ) - you've proved that you can learn the bare minimum to be accepted as competent in the field of study. The choice of words is deliberate there i.e. not expert, just competent.

The Dan grades that progress from 1st are where the true refinement of skill occurs.

For me, this is not philosophical claptrap but observational experience. I spent more than a decade studying Lau Gar and more than half of that time was spent as a Black Belt. By the time my bike accident wiped all that training away forever I had seen enough to have learned the indelible lesson that Black Belt really is only the first step.

In MJER I've seen the same thing in that I earned my shodan and what that allowed me to see was that Sensei Chriscole (who some may know through his work on karate kata bunkai) who is 2nd Dan is light-years more precise and developed in his techniques than I am i.e. I'd learned enough to know what I didn't know .

Circling slowly back to the OP, I guess what I'm saying is that it is unnecessary to get so hung up on BB tests. I concur that any martial arts training should have character development as part of the non-physical tuition - otherwise you just end up with better trained thugs - but any good instructor will weed out those with undesirable traits long before they get to BB stage.

 

[whitetiger2001]

Hello, There is an interesting way of test for Black Belts as well as other ranks. Did you get a chance to read it?

Makes alot of sense. The Ulltimate Black Belt test in UBBT.

In a year a person has to perform a variety of tasks and challenges to create a peronal transformation, test can be customizes.

For instance: 1,000 acts of kindness, complete 1,000 rounds of sparring, 1,000 rounds of single form, 52,000 push-ups, learn Jujutsu to blue belt, 25 hours of boxing, meditate 15 minutes a day, read dozen of books , spend a day in a wheel chair, ...the idea is perfection of the charcter of it's participants. (within 13 months).
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Each person would be require besides class time? will need to do a variety of training, and on their own time. Each person will need to keep track of their own progress. In class the Teacher will need to monitor their individual progress.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
In stead of one day of testing.....this is a long term testing1

What are your thoughts? (Please read the Black Belt Magazine -Aug 2007 issue for more explanation.

Aloha

Sounds nice, part martial art, part Boy Scouts but the idea of advancing to BB within little more than a year doesn't make sense to me. How can anyone be proficient enough in their material in that short a time? It takes years to get to the point where a student has the knowledge and skill to demonstrate they're ready to even be nominated by their instructor. I was nominated by my instructor three times for my 2nd Dan. Once, my master said I wasn't ready yet, the send time, I didn't feel ready yet but the third, both of us agreed I was. Acts of kindness, reading and wheelchair might build character but will not teach you what you need to know to prepare for the Big Dance.

 

[ancient warrior]

this was started by a friend of my sons Brandon and Tom callos this is above and beyond your black belt at joes karate school it is a very cool thing here you set your goals above the ones they set great idea for real interesting training......

 

[Phoenix44]

the idea of advancing to BB within little more than a year doesn't make sense to me.

From what I remember about UBBT, the candidates are already black belts.

But why 52,000 push-ups? Why not 50,000? Or 18 minutes of meditation? I understand the principle, but it's arbitrary anyway. And I agree that citizenship, humanity, persistence, etc, are probably taken into consideration when candidates are chosen for testing in many, if not most dojo.

I recently witnessed a BB test involving two women, one of whom was in her 40s with a full time job and a kid. After 40 minutes or so of basics, they had to demonstrate 70+ self defense techniques, 6 kata, striking, sparring, grappling, locks, throws, chokes, weapons defense, one-steps, multiple-person defense, and whatever else the instructors in the room wanted. The test lasted maybe 4.5 hours. They were incredible. Just think of the breadth of knowledge they had to demonstrate?

And afterward, sensei commented that his BB test 30 years ago lasted much longer, but he knew far less technique--it was just more of an opportunity for the upper ranks to abuse him.

So I guess it depends on what you really want.