Need more advice in cane fight practice

OP
A

Alan0354

Master Black Belt
Joined
Apr 29, 2021
Messages
1,446
Reaction score
410
This is why any blade training I do, I think of that dull training weapon as if it's real. I don't want to get into habit of grabbing things I shouldn't. If I trained escrima then I would have to decide if the stick is a stick or if it's a training sword. The movements for both are the same and my body would become confused if I trying to see the stick as both. My brain just doesn't have the ability for that.
I don't have to, I would never carry a sword!! It's always a cane/stick.

From watching all these videos, seems like winner or loser, nobody comes out clean. Just more cuts or less cuts. It's not like movies the winner comes out untouched. I guess that's where body armor was used back in the days.
 
OP
A

Alan0354

Master Black Belt
Joined
Apr 29, 2021
Messages
1,446
Reaction score
410
I must be hitting harder after a week practicing body motion!! I just hit the bag today, look at my thumb, a big bruise. I train on heavy bags twice a week consistently(can't affort to break the heavy bag!!). Last time was Sunday, everything was usual. This morning, after half a set, it was very painful already and I have to switch to more thrusting and less striking.
Bruised thumb.jpg


I did not change the way I hold the cane, it's the same cane, it even have foam covered handle. I did not take time off lately, so it's not because of my hand is out of shape. I never have problem even doing multiple sets at one time. Today, I have to stop after one set only as it was painful. I saw it later on and have to take a picture. It might not show that well, it's a pretty dark bruise!!!

I hope this is the sign I am hitting harder with the body motion!!! I did not even try to hit harder than usual....At least I did not intend to. Hopefully this is a good sign that I am doing it right.
 
OP
A

Alan0354

Master Black Belt
Joined
Apr 29, 2021
Messages
1,446
Reaction score
410
So the first level of sparring is being able to hit an incoming attacker. It doesn't have to be exactly like this, we use a knife versus stick so that both guys are getting training, you could do the same thing with a padded up unarmed guy.

This is mostly a distance match, but you can see how it closes up to standing grappling (and we were avoiding the ground because of my giant knee brace.)

This is a good example of an extended standing grappling match with weapons and how you spend a lot of time trying to break free a weapon or to control the other person's.
I watched the videos a few times. The first video is very unfair to you. Look like you use a training stick that is soft and he had the head protection. No matter how you hit him, he just kept charging and ignore your strikes. This is NOT going to happen in real life!!! If you use a true rattan stick and he doesn't have head protection, he would be a lot more hesitant to charge and stab you.......If he can still charge after a few hits to the head.

Also, from the 3rd video, looks like nobody is going to walk away unskated no matter you win or lose. Just who gets injured more seriously. It's not like in movie that the good guy walk away happily while the bad guy is dead. Same as stick fight, it's about who got hit more and got hit harder, so eventually one will drop!! Nobody can effectively block all the attack.

That said, watching the second video, you blame me for reluctant to join a class. Looks painful. This is NOT like bare knuckle MA, when we spar, it's a lot easier to control how hard you hit and no body really get hurt.....that often!!!( one time I stepped in to punch at the same time the other person threw a front kick. My ribs were wide open and I ate a good one combining my forward motion and his kick, couldn't even laugh for two weeks!!). I don't think you can control the stick as easy as punching and kicking. It's deceiving to think if you were protection, it's not painful. We wore pads some times, don't tell me it doesn't hurt!!! I'm too old to take this. If I am like the age when I trained in TKD, I sure don't mind. Not at 69!!!
 
Last edited:

lklawson

Grandmaster
Joined
Feb 3, 2005
Messages
5,029
Reaction score
1,650
Location
Huber Heights, OH
I don't have to, I would never carry a sword!! It's always a cane/stick.

From watching all these videos, seems like winner or loser, nobody comes out clean. Just more cuts or less cuts. It's not like movies the winner comes out untouched.
That depends on a lot of things, including how much training and experience the participants have. In this video, both are obviously trained. They use distance, timing, deceptive weapon-work, and footwork. Neither gets cut.

In this video, however, it is obvious that no one has any training in anything, weapons work, unarmed striking, nor grappling. Both swing wildly like baboons with a stick, move like pregnant yaks, have the footwork of a one-legged epileptic giraffe, and when they close to grappling look like monkeys humping a football. But cuts with the machete connect and wounds were incurred.

Notice the reoccurring theme of 'get actual training'?
 

Oily Dragon

Master of Arts
Joined
May 2, 2020
Messages
1,807
Reaction score
805
A lot of the dog brothers stuff results in a grappling match.


Such great footwork. I mean the sticks are cool but the stepping is cooler and more interesting a lot of the time.
I don't have to, I would never carry a sword!! It's always a cane/stick.

Obligatory funny.

Yeah, carrying a sword around in 2022 in public, you're gonna have a bad time. Especially if you write a book about it.

What I never understood was why he'd make the cover of a "Street Sword" book in the middle of snowy woodlands, before we even get to that grip...

1642022343911.png
 

lklawson

Grandmaster
Joined
Feb 3, 2005
Messages
5,029
Reaction score
1,650
Location
Huber Heights, OH
Such great footwork. I mean the sticks are cool but the stepping is cooler and more interesting a lot of the time.


Obligatory funny.

Yeah, carrying a sword around in 2022 in public, you're gonna have a bad time. Especially if you write a book about it.

What I never understood was why he'd make the cover of a "Street Sword" book in the middle of snowy woodlands, before we even get to that grip...

View attachment 27935
Elmore doesn't like me.

Did you read the book?

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 

JowGaWolf

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
11,979
Reaction score
4,495
I don't have to, I would never carry a sword!! It's always a cane/stick.

From watching all these videos, seems like winner or loser, nobody comes out clean. Just more cuts or less cuts. It's not like movies the winner comes out untouched. I guess that's where body armor was used back in the days.
I'm referring to defense. A stick I can grab. I don't want to grab a blade so when I train to defend against a weapon I always train to grab the wrist or forearm. Staff is the only weapon I think of as a stick. With an escrima stick I'm going to treat it like a blade.
 

Wing Woo Gar

Senior Master
Joined
Sep 30, 2021
Messages
2,060
Reaction score
1,007
Location
Northern California
Thanks

Yes, I notice if I use the body right, I can keep my elbow close to the body to strike. I did remember you guys told me that my elbows are too far out. Now I understand. I never wrestled before, only Judo.

Thanks for noticing the sound system. I am very very into sound. I design my own power amp and preamp. I spend even more time on that than MA. Electronic design is my passion of life, I had a full career as EE and manager of EE. After I retired in 2005, I never stop. I even set up a lab in one of my rooms as a lab with all the test equipment. I always into audiophile, I decided to design power amp as it's the more challenge part of the system. I have friends brought their good power amps that are up to $4000 to $5000 and do blind tests( not knowing which amp is playing and judge the sound) and they all picked my amps are the best by a lot. I even have a Nakamichi PA7( improved version of Threshold S300 designed by the famous Nelson Pass of Pass Lab) and it's not even close.

My amps are all relatively low power, the black one is only 60W@8ohm, but it can drive down to below 2ohms@250W/ch. It is designed to drive hard to drive speakers. The harder the speakers, the more they shine. They are all high current design with the first 15 to 20W in class A.

I just bought the pair of speakers about 2 years ago, it's JM Lab Alto Utopia. I bought it used as the new equivalent ones are over $20K. I am cheap, I buy used ones for 1/3 the price. I never intended to go extravagant on speakers like this, I used to (still have) have a pair of JM Lab Spectral. But as I improved my amps, the amp out class the speakers, I have no choice to dish out the money to get the better pair. Sadly, it turns out because the old Spectral being 4ohm speaker, they are more critical to the amp than the Utopia that are 8ohms. You want to test amps, you need a pair of hard to drive speakers. I heard Martin Logan panel speakers are one of those.

Anyway, don't get me started on this, I can talk forever!!! I am currently design one that the cost of parts alone is $1500 each. Those older ones are only about $1000 each for parts. I do it the professional way, the inside of the amps look more expensive than those good amp on the market. No Micky Mouse, all printed circuit board, professional connectors, beefy wires................

Here are some pictures of my amps:
View attachment 27915View attachment 27916

View attachment 27918


I believe the older people are, the more they need exercise. MA, stick fight and weight lifting are exercise for the body. THIS.....is my exercise of the brain. I even obtain a US Patent on noise cancellation for electric guitar in 2014. That's another story for a different time. I designed guitar amplifiers also!!!
Wow!
 

Rich Parsons

A Student of Martial Arts
Founding Member
Lifetime Supporting Member
MTS Alumni
Joined
Oct 13, 2001
Messages
16,371
Reaction score
803
Location
Michigan
This is mostly a distance match, but you can see how it closes up to standing grappling (and we were avoiding the ground because of my giant knee brace.)

Lamont,

Good use of your baiting techniques.
You presented the high block early for him and left it hanging to he would hit it, which gave you the quick counter.
This should range control, and presenting a target for the opponent to attack to bring them into a range so you can attack back.

I like it. :D
 
OP
A

Alan0354

Master Black Belt
Joined
Apr 29, 2021
Messages
1,446
Reaction score
410
That depends on a lot of things, including how much training and experience the participants have. In this video, both are obviously trained. They use distance, timing, deceptive weapon-work, and footwork. Neither gets cut.

In this video, however, it is obvious that no one has any training in anything, weapons work, unarmed striking, nor grappling. Both swing wildly like baboons with a stick, move like pregnant yaks, have the footwork of a one-legged epileptic giraffe, and when they close to grappling look like monkeys humping a football. But cuts with the machete connect and wounds were incurred.

Notice the reoccurring theme of 'get actual training'?
Yes, if only people learn the fancy moves, they will come out unscated.
 

JowGaWolf

Sr. Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Aug 3, 2015
Messages
11,979
Reaction score
4,495
I must be hitting harder after a week practicing body motion!! I just hit the bag today, look at my thumb, a big bruise. I train on heavy bags twice a week consistently(can't affort to break the heavy bag!!). Last time was Sunday, everything was usual. This morning, after half a set, it was very painful already and I have to switch to more thrusting and less striking.
View attachment 27934

I did not change the way I hold the cane, it's the same cane, it even have foam covered handle. I did not take time off lately, so it's not because of my hand is out of shape. I never have problem even doing multiple sets at one time. Today, I have to stop after one set only as it was painful. I saw it later on and have to take a picture. It might not show that well, it's a pretty dark bruise!!!

I hope this is the sign I am hitting harder with the body motion!!! I did not even try to hit harder than usual....At least I did not intend to. Hopefully this is a good sign that I am doing it right.
Switch hands?
 

Wing Woo Gar

Senior Master
Joined
Sep 30, 2021
Messages
2,060
Reaction score
1,007
Location
Northern California
Elmore doesn't like me.

Did you read the book?

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
I know almost nothing of swordsmanship, but I find it fascinating. I have your book, I enjoyed reading it, though i must confess I had to do some additional research to get a better understanding of terms. If I were closer I would love the opportunity to train with you.
 

dvcochran

Grandmaster
Joined
Nov 7, 2017
Messages
7,047
Reaction score
2,290
Location
Southeast U.S.
This is why any blade training I do, I think of that dull training weapon as if it's real. I don't want to get into habit of grabbing things I shouldn't. If I trained escrima then I would have to decide if the stick is a stick or if it's a training sword. The movements for both are the same and my body would become confused if I trying to see the stick as both. My brain just doesn't have the ability for that.
Yeah, I was trained this is why Kali progresses from a sharp weapon, to stick, to empty hand training.
 

Dirty Dog

MT Senior Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2009
Messages
20,622
Reaction score
7,003
Location
Pueblo West, CO
This is why any blade training I do, I think of that dull training weapon as if it's real. I don't want to get into habit of grabbing things I shouldn't. If I trained escrima then I would have to decide if the stick is a stick or if it's a training sword. The movements for both are the same and my body would become confused if I trying to see the stick as both. My brain just doesn't have the ability for that.
Some options for blade training:
Rubber knives with paint along the edge. There are commercial products with chalk bars embedded in the edge.
Big markers.
Chalk sticks.
Flexible blades, such as the SCA and other HEMA groups use. You can put paint on the edges of these, as well, if you want.
Shockknives and similar products.
 
OP
A

Alan0354

Master Black Belt
Joined
Apr 29, 2021
Messages
1,446
Reaction score
410
If your other hand doesn't suffer the same damage then switch placement of hands. It would still be a two-handed swing.
I am hoping this will pass, switching hands is like switching stance or going south paw. I am training south paw in kick boxing, it's not easy.
 

Oily Dragon

Master of Arts
Joined
May 2, 2020
Messages
1,807
Reaction score
805
Elmore doesn't like me.

Did you read the book?

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

I have many books on martial arts, and some of them are the best books I've ever read. That is not one of them.

If it makes you feel better, I dislike martial artists in general, but I make exceptions and you're one of them so far.

For sword stuff I tend to stick to the oldest material I can find, which tends to be the best. I may have mentioned it before but I train in the Chinese Moon Flowing Saber, Double Sabers, but using Niten Doraku's methods as an underlying framework. Because of this, I was able to avoid even considering that book. Because I have little money to spare and I'd rather spend it on lessons with humans rather than dead wood and Kindle e-books.
 

Blindside

Grandmaster
Founding Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2001
Messages
5,151
Reaction score
823
Location
Kennewick, WA
I watched the videos a few times. The first video is very unfair to you. Look like you use a training stick that is soft and he had the head protection. No matter how you hit him, he just kept charging and ignore your strikes. This is NOT going to happen in real life!!! If you use a true rattan stick and he doesn't have head protection, he would be a lot more hesitant to charge and stab you.......If he can still charge after a few hits to the head.
We are using a padded stick, this is just training. There are two parts of this training, did I get a good hit on him as he came in and what happens if I don't? So the second half of the training is dealing with him when he gets in close, a stick or cane isn't a lightsaber, lots of things can not go right.


Also, from the 3rd video, looks like nobody is going to walk away unskated no matter you win or lose. Just who gets injured more seriously. It's not like in movie that the good guy walk away happily while the bad guy is dead. Same as stick fight, it's about who got hit more and got hit harder, so eventually one will drop!! Nobody can effectively block all the attack.
Think of these as lots of little individual fights, if you take an axe shot to the hand that hit would probably end the fight as that is going to be pretty distracting. I don't think these sparring matches represent reality, a mask and a rattan stick interact differently than a bare head and a hardwood stick, and that is fine, I can accept that diversion from reality.


That said, watching the second video, you blame me for reluctant to join a class. Looks painful. This is NOT like bare knuckle MA, when we spar, it's a lot easier to control how hard you hit and no body really get hurt.....that often!!!( one time I stepped in to punch at the same time the other person threw a front kick. My ribs were wide open and I ate a good one combining my forward motion and his kick, couldn't even laugh for two weeks!!). I don't think you can control the stick as easy as punching and kicking. It's deceiving to think if you were protection, it's not painful. We wore pads some times, don't tell me it doesn't hurt!!! I'm too old to take this. If I am like the age when I trained in TKD, I sure don't mind. Not at 69!!!
I don't expect everyone to do this, used padded sticks, wear a heavy coat, ask for lighter contact, there are lots of things you can do to make taking a hit easier on the body.
 
Last edited:

Blindside

Grandmaster
Founding Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2001
Messages
5,151
Reaction score
823
Location
Kennewick, WA
Thank you so much, these are the kind of videos I really want to see. Real full contact sparring.

After I watched the 1st and 3rd video, I wish I can remember more about Judo that I took long time ago. That would really come in handy. Might not be as good as BJJ, but we did do a lot of tuck and pull and stuff like that.

I like your footwork also.

One think I notice more and more, also watching your videos. There's NO really good way to block the strikes reliably. You both landed on each other. It's NOT like people want to make others to believe you can have defensive blocking that are very effective and you can block the incoming strikes reliably. I've seen you using more footwork to move away. Also swinging the stick when you retreat to
.......
please correct me if I am wrong. I really think footwork is so important, I have to learn defensive striking as described, and I really have to find some ways to bring back my Judo experience( that is going to be hard!!!).
 
Top