What cane tip is better for self defense?

Dirty Dog

MT Senior Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2009
Messages
20,332
Reaction score
6,826
Location
Pueblo West, CO
Not if I just keep it normal tip, either no foot or the original hard rubber foot grinding down thin. The one with spike is out already.
I don't think that is true at all.
If you hit someone with your cane, with or without a spike, with or without modifications, or with that silly ring you bought, or stab them with a knife, or shoot them, it is all the same in the eyes of the law. It doesn't matter what weapon you used, all that matters is "was using a weapon justified".
If it wasn't, you're in trouble. If it was, you're not.
 

geezer

Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Oct 20, 2007
Messages
7,067
Reaction score
3,157
Location
Phoenix, AZ
That might solve a lot of problem. I actually grind down two of the hard rubber foot that came with the cane to smaller size to reduce weight. I thought that was a mistake and went all over the place to try to buy new hard rubber foots. For the life of me, I just cannot find any. I contacted United Cutlery and they don't have spare. I even join a walking cane forum to see whether they know any, no luck. I even went back to United cutlery and bag them to order some and they didn't even reply.

Maybe the two that I grind down is NOT a waste after all. Maybe that's just what the doctor's order!!!

View attachment 27803

See the middle one? I took the hard rubber foot like the one at the bottom and grind it down. Still very hard. :D

These foots are so hard it doesn't even give good traction. I don't use the cane for walking anyway. In fact I carry it in my hand without even touching the ground. It's kind of politely say "don't tread on me". Hey, if I can prevent an attack, that's the best self defense!!!


Ha ha, when comes to canes, I am OCD. I have like 9 of the United Cutlery Night Watchman can cut to different length like 1/2" difference, trying out different foots and all that. Spent a lot of time researching into what is available on the market. The only other one Is either the Ka-Bar and another place that sell a little lighter one made of aluminum. Those are very expensive, one is like over $200. I decided not to get those because it won't past the metal detector, and it's suspicious to have such a heavy metal cane for walking!!!
I don't know if you noticed, but the original tip that came with your cane 1. has a conical, flared profile and 2. a small screw in the center firmly attaching it to the plastic shaft of the cane. It is made of a hard plastic and not very "grippy" like a traditional rubber cane tip and is not great for walking.

It is apparently designed more for a secure grip if you decide to wield the cane by the shaft and bludgeoning your opponent with the heavier crook end. This isn't a bad idea, except that...

1. There is a trade off. If you grab the cane by the shaft (even with the improved grip supplied by the flared tip) and you club your foe with the crook, the crook can be snagged in clothing, etc., or be caught by your opponent. Then he has an even more secure grip which he can use to take your weapon from you.

2. As you noted above, the wider, flared tip somewhat reduces the penetration and effectiveness of thrusting attacks. Personally, I don't see this as a significant problem if you do not plan on literally stabbing your attacker. But on the other hand, it does increase the chance that your attacker could get a firm grip on the end of your cane. And that's a real concern.

BTW, I'm told that some states have laws regarding objects that are fashioned for stabbing and penetrating... like the pointed tip on the crook before you wisely (IMO) modified it. Your state could well be one of them. Worth checking out.
 

geezer

Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Oct 20, 2007
Messages
7,067
Reaction score
3,157
Location
Phoenix, AZ
I don't think that is true at all.
If you hit someone with your cane, with or without a spike, with or without modifications, or with that silly ring you bought, or stab them with a knife, or shoot them, it is all the same in the eyes of the law. It doesn't matter what weapon you used, all that matters is "was using a weapon justified".
If it wasn't, you're in trouble. If it was, you're not.
Wait, if you live in a place with specific laws against certain weapons, and you use one anyway, that's got to matter too, right?
 

Dirty Dog

MT Senior Moderator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2009
Messages
20,332
Reaction score
6,826
Location
Pueblo West, CO
Wait, if you live in a place with specific laws against certain weapons, and you use one anyway, that's got to matter too, right?
Then I'd guess you'd be in trouble for having it, regardless of if you used it or not. Because it's the possession that is illegal. I'd be willing to bet that if you used it, you'd be charged with possession of an illegal weapon (the specific weapon) as well as assault (with no specific weapon).
But I don't think you're going to find a lot of places where "assault with a cane" is different than "assault with a knife" or "assault with a gun". If your use was not justified, it's pretty much all "assault with a weapon".
 

Flying Crane

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Sep 21, 2005
Messages
14,702
Reaction score
4,234
Location
San Francisco
Wait, if you live in a place with specific laws against certain weapons, and you use one anyway, that's got to matter too, right?
Im even thinking about making deliberate modifications to weaponize something. If it gets noticed, depending on local laws, it might create trouble whether its used or not. Things on the internet have a way of never disappearing
 

geezer

Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Oct 20, 2007
Messages
7,067
Reaction score
3,157
Location
Phoenix, AZ
The foot with spike arrived just on time. Here's the picture:

View attachment 27806

It's disappointing. It doesn't fit that well, it's just like an accordion that expand and fit over the cane. I don't think it's that secure. I am not sure it will stay put if you strike. It's very cheaply made. The material is not even as hard as the foot came with the United Cutlery shown in the middle. I don't think the spike is held very secure. More importantly, you can't have the spike out all the time, it will scratch up the floor. It's too much trouble to pull it out when needed.

Here is the picture to show how the accordion like upper skirt to hold onto the stick, it's so soft you can pull the foot off the cane easily. I bet if you swing hard, it might fly off without even hitting anything. You can see I can expand the skirt just by sticking my two fingers in. That's how flimsy it is.

View attachment 27807

Another $20 wasted. I wasted quite a bit of money like that. Things sound promise and turn out to be a dud a lot. You never know until you buy it.
Being able to pull it off might be a good thing. Then if anybody grabs the shaft when you jab them with it, you could more easily retract it and wrest it free.

Or epoxy it on if you want it to stay in place. I wouldn't, but you know ...you spent $20, right?
 

geezer

Grandmaster
MT Mentor
Joined
Oct 20, 2007
Messages
7,067
Reaction score
3,157
Location
Phoenix, AZ
Im even thinking about making deliberate modifications to weaponize something. If it gets noticed, depending on local laws, it might create trouble whether its used or not. Things on the internet have a way of never disappearing
True enough. You notice I don't post anything advocating illegal or questionable ...actions. :)
Then I'd guess you'd be in trouble for having it, regardless of if you used it or not. Because it's the possession that is illegal. I'd be willing to bet that if you used it, you'd be charged with possession of an illegal weapon (the specific weapon) as well as assault (with no specific weapon).
But I don't think you're going to find a lot of places where "assault with a cane" is different than "assault with a knife" or "assault with a gun". If your use was not justified, it's pretty much all "assault with a weapon".
Lucky I live in a place where just about everything is legal to carry: handguns (concealed or open carry) without permits, batons, nunchaku, little knives, big knives, swords... well you get the idea.

Honestly ...the odds are that if anybody ever kills me, it's gonna be in a car accident. Or maybe they'll sneeze on me. :oops:
 
Last edited:

Gerry Seymour

MT Moderator
Staff member
Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2012
Messages
28,032
Reaction score
9,165
Location
Hendersonville, NC
I don't need it for walking at all. It's only for self defense.
Why not go ahead and be used to using one you could also walk with? Someday you may need it, even if only temporarily.

And I doubt there's a huge difference in real terms between the usability in fighting of a stick with or without a rubber tip.
 

Gerry Seymour

MT Moderator
Staff member
Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2012
Messages
28,032
Reaction score
9,165
Location
Hendersonville, NC
I guess my bottom line question is I want to hear from people whether it is more effective to swing and strike compare to thrusting in fighting. That give me an idea whether to favor thrusting or striking.

I did a lot of research on canes already, I don't think there is anything new I have not seen, including Ka-Bar and another aluminum cane that are really heavy duty. This is NOT the subject.
They each have their place. And I don't think there's much value in min/maxing with an extra ounce here and a slightly harder bit there. Baseline is, it's a stick. A hard, dense stick. It'll hit hard if you use it well.
 

Gerry Seymour

MT Moderator
Staff member
Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2012
Messages
28,032
Reaction score
9,165
Location
Hendersonville, NC
I guess I keep thinking striking is more effective and most of my practice is striking, not thrusting. Have no or a small foot, sacrifice some striking force for poking better.
I think you're thinking of poking as a strike. I would think of what you'd expect it to do when you poke. I'd be using it to control distance or maybe to move the head. Neither of those would change dramatically with/without a rubber cane tip.
 

Gerry Seymour

MT Moderator
Staff member
Supporting Member
Joined
Mar 27, 2012
Messages
28,032
Reaction score
9,165
Location
Hendersonville, NC
The foot with spike arrived just on time. Here's the picture:

View attachment 27806

It's disappointing. It doesn't fit that well, it's just like an accordion that expand and fit over the cane. I don't think it's that secure. I am not sure it will stay put if you strike. It's very cheaply made. The material is not even as hard as the foot came with the United Cutlery shown in the middle. I don't think the spike is held very secure. More importantly, you can't have the spike out all the time, it will scratch up the floor. It's too much trouble to pull it out when needed.

Here is the picture to show how the accordion like upper skirt to hold onto the stick, it's so soft you can pull the foot off the cane easily. I bet if you swing hard, it might fly off without even hitting anything. You can see I can expand the skirt just by sticking my two fingers in. That's how flimsy it is.

View attachment 27807

Another $20 wasted. I wasted quite a bit of money like that. Things sound promise and turn out to be a dud a lot. You never know until you buy it.
If you want it to stick, epoxy it on. It might not last in training in repeated use, but it'd last through a fight. Mind you, if it's not icy, I expect having a spike on your cane might make it more likely someone regards it as a weapon if you ever use it.
 
OP
A

Alan0354

Master Black Belt
Joined
Apr 29, 2021
Messages
1,140
Reaction score
315
I don't think that is true at all.
If you hit someone with your cane, with or without a spike, with or without modifications, or with that silly ring you bought, or stab them with a knife, or shoot them, it is all the same in the eyes of the law. It doesn't matter what weapon you used, all that matters is "was using a weapon justified".
If it wasn't, you're in trouble. If it was, you're not.
If I have to use it, it doesn't matter. Just make sure it's legal to carry.

I am sure it's legal if I just stand there and let the thug beat me up!!! When you are being attack, you use whatever it takes to defend.
 

jks9199

Administrator
Staff member
Lifetime Supporting Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2006
Messages
22,668
Reaction score
2,921
Location
Northern VA
I guess my bottom line question is I want to hear from people whether it is more effective to swing and strike compare to thrusting in fighting. That give me an idea whether to favor thrusting or striking.

I did a lot of research on canes already, I don't think there is anything new I have not seen, including Ka-Bar and another aluminum cane that are really heavy duty. This is NOT the subject.
The answer is... Yes. I personally would go with the rubber tip, since it makes the can more functional as a cane. Striking, swings, and thrusts are all effective offensive techniques with a cane, and which is best depends on the specific circumstances. If you don't need the cane to support yourself, you have a lot of freedom -- but why advertise that? Swings take room, thrusts can occur within the space of your body, and other strikes have their own requirements... so, to circle back to your question -- Yes. Each is effective.
 
OP
A

Alan0354

Master Black Belt
Joined
Apr 29, 2021
Messages
1,140
Reaction score
315
If you want it to stick, epoxy it on. It might not last in training in repeated use, but it'd last through a fight. Mind you, if it's not icy, I expect having a spike on your cane might make it more likely someone regards it as a weapon if you ever use it.
I am going to stick with hard rubber foot or no foot at this point. Geezer made a valid point people can grab the cane easier with the wide foot, make sense to use no foot of very small narrow foot.
 
OP
A

Alan0354

Master Black Belt
Joined
Apr 29, 2021
Messages
1,140
Reaction score
315
I think you're thinking of poking as a strike. I would think of what you'd expect it to do when you poke. I'd be using it to control distance or maybe to move the head. Neither of those would change dramatically with/without a rubber cane tip.
Strike, I meant swinging and hit. I use the word thrusting for poking. These words are confusing!!!

I admit I am OCD in this, I keep trying to optimize to the extreme. I guess being an engineer, I am overly analytical about this.
 

Latest Discussions

Top