Question on different stick fight styles

Blindside

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Yes, I notice I need shorter trajectory for rattan cane. The heavy cane definitely still hit harder, but it take more winding up and longer to slow down after the hit. The rattan just has a faster recovery time and attack time. Question is where is the balance.

I did everything to lighten the heavy stick. Now they weight in at 18oz. It helps a little. My issue is Rattan is way too light. The place that sells thick rattan canes are out of stock. Apparently not too many people want heavy rattan cane or sticks. I want rattan canes that is at least 13oz after cutting down to 30". That means the rattan has to be at least 1 1/8 inch diameter or bigger AND with skin. That's huge for rattan.

Those rattan canes that are available on ebay are like 7/8" thick 8 to 9 oz. That's just not good enough.
At Dog Brothers I fight with a 10 ounce 30 or 31 inch rattan stick. I have TKO'd guys through fencing masks with them, have broken hands, and have first hand evidence that if you whack someone on the side of the knee they don't want to stay standing. If I am using it for self-defense I would want a heavier stick too, more importantly I don't want rattan, we use rattan to not break more things on each other. Rattan absorbs force, don't use it for a self defense weapon, a rattan stick is a training tool.
 

Unkogami

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I have been looking for Kendo on youtube, I watch ( say skip forward) quite a few of them.


You can see on the right of the screen a whole bunch of related videos if you pull down the menu of Mix-Kendo Guide.

It is SOOOOOO Boring!! The movement is SOOOOOOO Stiff. It's like you have to do it exactly to do a straight chop down!!! This really remind me of those chinese kung fu that you have to have everything EXACTLY in the right position, not too wide, not to high, not too low, not too this and not too that...................

Call me ignorant, all the videos on one vertical chop down, they don't use the shoulder, waist to concentrate the force, just up.....down......up. I am not so sure I want to learn two hands strike from Japanese Kendo!!! Does it even produce enough power for blunt instrument like a cane? Maybe with a sharp sword, it might work well. But I prefer what I have been practicing.

I know I am new, only about 1/2 year of practice. But I have been into kick boxing type for years, I learned you use a lot of synergy to focus the force to one point like casting shown by Lamont Glass's video. That's how you generate a lot of force focus at the point you hit. I don't buy what I see in the Kendo videos.

I was very patient watching quite a few of the Kendo videos, I can't take it anymore. Unlike the FMA Kali, I really learn from those videos and just straight translate to two hand swinging. It just make so much more sense.

I truly never thought of it this way until today. Maybe I find my answer talking in this thread, I am just doing Kali, but with two hands to use the heavy cane for extra power. I do learn a little from Irish stick fight holding with both hands close to the middle of the cane and hit with both ends of the cane like doing jab and reverse punch in punching for close distance.
You have to practice kendo for a long time before you appreciate what it really is. You only have to practice without pads against a strong opponent for two minutes to realize how stupid you were.
 

Blindside

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You have to practice kendo for a long time before you appreciate what it really is. You only have to practice without pads against a strong opponent for two minutes to realize how stupid you were.

Yup, I just had to fight against it to appreciate it. :D
Good old DB video that is pertinent to this thread. @Alan0354 Watch how little power it took to crack ribs on a thrust. Pertinent footage at 1:00.
 

Blindside

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For two handed short staff/long stick work you might look at Tapado, these are just some examples.
 
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Alan0354

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For two handed short staff/long stick work you might look at Tapado, these are just some examples.
Now I know, what I am practicing is very much Tapado. I'll check and see whether there is any school in my area.

This is really what I want as I just took the single hand Kali and do it with 2 hands. Tapado seems to be the same idea.

One thing, they don't use any casting. I like casting even better, more compact, not wide swing. I am still practicing hard, it's not easy to do it good. My issue is more on hitting the leg, it's much easier to do casting if I hit the upper body. The movement of hitting the lower leg is more complicate, I have to lunge forward and lower my body, strike with casting, make sure I use torso, then pull the stick back after passing the aiming point. Still working on this one.

I don't see in single hand nor 2 hands using casting in any video yet, did you invent it or you learn from someone?

I am practicing more on hitting the legs than to the head. First, you don't kill someone hitting the legs but it's just as effective. Secondary, it's hard for the opponent to grab the stick if you hit low. I am going to practice using the waist to generate more power when poke and see what happen.

Thanks
 
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Blindside

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Now I know, what I am practicing is very much Tapado. I'll check and see whether there is any school in my area.

This is really what I want as I just took the single hand Kali and do it with 2 hands. Tapado seems to be the same idea.

One thing, they don't use any casting. I like casting even better, more compact, not wide swing. I am still practicing hard, it's not easy to do it good. My issue is more on hitting the leg, it's much easier to do casting if I hit the upper body. The movement of hitting the lower leg is more complicate, I have to lunge forward and lower my body, strike with casting, make sure I use torso, then pull the stick back after passing the aiming point. Still working on this one.

I don't see in single hand nor 2 hands using casting in any video yet, did you invent it or you learn from someone?

I certainly didn't invent it (casting). Learned a bit of it from the dabbling I did in longsword and part of it was from the short staff work that I do in PTK, I don't think it is particularly unusual.

Filipino martial arts in general are a niche art but Tapado is an even smaller subset within that, the odds of you finding a local Tapado group is incredibly low. Where are you again?
 

frank raud

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I don't know, it just is. This is a video of me hitting the heavy bags, the poking is not as hard:


Maybe you can give me some pointers how to poke
Torso rotation and/or forward body movement with the thrust. Keeping his elbows closer to his body as he thrusts would also help.
I definitely agree with Tony and Blindside, you are only using arm power to strike or thrust. I know you are trying out some Doyle style Irish stick with the two handed grip, might I suggest switching to a bayonet grip (one hand up, one hand down) as opposed to having both hands equal. For me, it feels more natural for a thrust. You can still do bar smashes, and you will find it easier to do an uppercut strike with your hands in a bayonet grip.
 
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Alan0354

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I certainly didn't invent it (casting). Learned a bit of it from the dabbling I did in longsword and part of it was from the short staff work that I do in PTK, I don't think it is particularly unusual.

Filipino martial arts in general are a niche art but Tapado is an even smaller subset within that, the odds of you finding a local Tapado group is incredibly low. Where are you again?
I am in San Jose Ca. area.

I am surprise FMA is not more common. I did not set out to like FMA Kali. I was looking at different videos like Irish stick fight, Japanese Kendo and other swords and all ( of cause I looked at Chinese stuffs as I am a Chinese!!!). I just attracted to Kali. It just make more sense, it's very smooth, continuous in a curve. I started single hand Kali for 3 months, felt that it lack power with single hand, went to two hand and pretty much copy what I learned in Kali. Irish stick fight is really funny, it hit like doing jabs in punching, then let the short end of the stick BOUNCE on the forearm to help pulling back. I just don't think it can hit very hard. Also, when using cane, I cannot switch the cane from hand to hand in Irish stick to strike as the other end of the cane is curved( crooked cane). Japan Kendo is too choppy, it chop straight, then forcefully pull the cane/sword back up straight. It's not smooth at all. All the motion is very choppy.

About Casting: Somehow, I just never seen casting used in all the FMA video I've seen. I use kind of similar concept in punching, that's why when you talked about it, I just got it and never have second thoughts and just started changing how I swing all together and been practicing since. It just has so much advantage over the wide circular swing.

My practicing space is quite tight, multiple heavy bags, a speed bag and a hanging ball. If I swing like the normal Kali way, I'll be hitting a lot of things unintentionally. With casting, it's very clean, I hardly ever hit anything unintentionally. Like I said many times, for competition and match, you have a wide open flat space, you don't worry about hitting things in the surrounding. For self defense situation, the space is never open, full of tables, chairs, people and all that, Wide circular swing doesn't work. Casting is the answer.

I guess casting might not be as useful if you think about competition and match. But I am 100% committed in practicing casting.................Unless you have objection. Let me know.

Thanks
 
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Nolo_Ferratus

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Hi

I have been looking on youtube on stick fight. I yet to find any style that hold the stick with two hands like Katana. I am practicing using two hands like Katana because it enables me to hit harder, using a 20oz cane to add the stopping power. Did I miss a style that using two hands?

It seems that there's mainly two different stick fight styles, the most popular one is Philippine keli/arnis, then there is Irish stick fight. That's about all I see. Irish stick fight is very different, it actually like jabs in punching, it jabs out, let the other end of the stick to bounce on the forearm to stop the stick and bounce back to launch the second jab faster. Then they use a lot of two hand with thumbs facing each other close to the middle of the stick and hit with either end like punching.

It seems the keli/arnis is better because it actually swing the stick, it should hit harder. But I'll let you experts comment on this as I don't know much of Irish stick fight.

I actually started out practice keli/arnis use single hand. After 3 months, I just feel it's not powerful enough because the heaviest stick I can use is about 13oz. I know most keli sticks are as light as 6oz in order to get the speed. The youtube video that convince me to switch to two hands was one on competition. The two guys just non stop hitting each other for the whole duration of the fight, they don't even worry about blocking, just kept swinging and landing!!!! This is NOT the way I want to use for self defense. I cannot afford to wack the guy and he just look and say "ouch"!!! I switched to two hand katana style right on that day!!! I am not that strong, BUT I don't think I am that weak judging from the weight I pushed in the gym compare to people around. 13.5oz stick is about the max I feel comfortable with one hand, any heavier just slowing me down and harder to control. That's already at least 4oz heavier than the normal thick keli sticks. Still, it's not 20oz!!! Also, it is so much easy to loss the stick during the fight when swinging with one hand than with two.

On top, I try doing casting with one hand, it's hard. You can cast out, reach the max distance, but after the hit, pulling back is a lot harder compare to two hands. I find single hand stick needs a lot more open space because the swing is wider. With two hands, I can control much better. Particular on casting, I can generate more power without starting with a wide swing, then after the peak of the power, I can pull back easier without having to let the stick keep swinging. Bottom line, two hands result in more compact movement and can be use in tighter space without worrying about hitting things in the surrounding as much. BUT why nobody use two hands?

This is how I feel, please comment and correct me if I am wr
 

Nolo_Ferratus

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I am in San Jose Ca. area.

I am surprise FMA is not more common. I did not set out to like FMA Kali. I was looking at different videos like Irish stick fight, Japanese Kendo and other swords and all ( of cause I looked at Chinese stuffs as I am a Chinese!!!). I just attracted to Kali. It just make more sense, it's very smooth, continuous in a curve. I started single hand Kali for 3 months, felt that it lack power with single hand, went to two hand and pretty much copy what I learned in Kali. Irish stick fight is really funny, it hit like doing jabs in punching, then let the short end of the stick BOUNCE on the forearm to help pulling back. I just don't think it can hit very hard. Also, when using cane, I cannot switch the cane from hand to hand in Irish stick to strike as the other end of the cane is curved( crooked cane). Japan Kendo is too choppy, it chop straight, then forcefully pull the cane/sword back up straight. It's not smooth at all. All the motion is very choppy.

About Casting: Somehow, I just never seen casting used in all the FMA video I've seen. I use kind of similar concept in punching, that's why when you talked about it, I just got it and never have second thoughts and just started changing how I swing all together and been practicing since. It just has so much advantage over the wide circular swing.

My practicing space is quite tight, multiple heavy bags, a speed bag and a hanging ball. If I swing like the normal Kali way, I'll be hitting a lot of things unintentionally. With casting, it's very clean, I hardly ever hit anything unintentionally. Like I said many times, for competition and match, you have a wide open flat space, you don't worry about hitting things in the surrounding. For self defense situation, the space is never open, full of tables, chairs, people and all that, Wide circular swing doesn't work. Casting is the answer.

I guess casting might not be as useful if you think about competition and match. But I am 100% committed in practicing casting.................Unless you have objection. Let me know.

Thanks
 
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