More mma bashing....

[Spinedoc]

As a "traditional" martial artist. I don't bash MMA.

To be quite blunt, I really don't think about MMA much at all. I mean, it's not even on my radar and it's not something I watch very often. When I do think about it on rare occasions, it's not really positive or negative…it's a sport. Just like many others. As K-Man said, I accept it for what it is.

 

[Spinedoc]

The closest thing to that is whatever they teach in the military... Which is basically MMA.

Lol... The way I see it, the only difference between sport combatives and military combatives is the inclusion of weapons and the very slight addition of dirty tactics.

As a former military person I take a bit of an issue with this. It's not simply the inclusion of weapons, it is a completely separate way of thinking and frame of mind. When you realize the person is not simply trying to win but actually trying to kill you it changes the way you fight and think completely. Also, the martial arts we learned weren't MMA in the sport sense, but rather a mixture of different techniques from several arts. Including Hapkido, jujutsu, karate, etc. Speaking as a former Navy Corpsman stationed with Marine Recon.

 

[BeeBrian]

This is simply a shift in the market trend. The modern McDojo is RBSD.

Krav Maga, Systema, and the Marines Program are a great attempt at making real fighting become something people can prepare for.

...And then there's Papa Greed and the lord of lies, with their hybrid Muay Systemaga that they learned from their Polynesian ancestors.

 

[BeeBrian]

As a former military person I take a bit of an issue with this. It's not simply the inclusion of weapons, it is a completely separate way of thinking and frame of mind. When you realize the person is not simply trying to win but actually trying to kill you it changes the way you fight and think completely. Also, the martial arts we learned weren't MMA in the sport sense, but rather a mixture of different techniques from several arts. Including Hapkido, jujutsu, karate, etc. Speaking as a former Navy Corpsman stationed with Marine Recon.

Does the Military ever teach that stuff to the public?

It's something that I actually would love to get into.

 

[jezr74]

Looks like marketing BS to me. If your buying into it's MMA vs. TMA thing, your just giving it some validity it doesn't deserve, or have your own axe to grind.

 

[Mephisto]

if the guy in the article wants MMA to go away, or wants the general public to buy his silliness, all he has to do is step into an octagon and prove the effectiveness of his system against some MMA fighters. There isn't a promotion in the MMA world that would turn down a TMA stylist trying to prove his style against MMA. If he can pull it off, he'll be a very wealthy man, and a hero to millions of practitioners.

He's never going to do that though, and we all know why.

He wouldn't even have to attend a venue. He could go to any mma gym and ask to spar and record the whole affair. No money involved so he doesn't have to compromise his morals. He may even be able to find a gym that will agree to a no rules match that will allow his deadly techniques. Competing gyms are used to having guys drop by to spar and wouldn't view it as a challenge or insult as long as he acts normal about it.

 

[Mephisto]

Does the Military ever teach that stuff to the public?

It's something that I actually would love to get into.

I'm not sure the military focuses much on hand to hand, yes there are some programs that have existed, but I don't think seals and special forces have anything all that special or unique. A lot of the guys that claim to tech special forces are straight up bs or really stretching the degree to which they taught a member of the special forces. That being said what flys on the battle field can only help you in limited scenarios in real life. On a battlefield your object might be more obvious and killing and maiming is more likely to be expected. In civilian life if all you know is "deadly" attacks you can really get yourself into trouble. Every physical altercation does not merit destroying your opponent. You may want to have the ability to put someone down for good in the worst case scenario, but you should also have the ability to put them into submission with strikes or locks without permanently maiming them. "The deadly" is overrated imo, and can get you into trouble if it's all you've got.

 

[drop bear]

As a former military person I take a bit of an issue with this. It's not simply the inclusion of weapons, it is a completely separate way of thinking and frame of mind. When you realize the person is not simply trying to win but actually trying to kill you it changes the way you fight and think completely. Also, the martial arts we learned weren't MMA in the sport sense, but rather a mixture of different techniques from several arts. Including Hapkido, jujutsu, karate, etc. Speaking as a former Navy Corpsman stationed with Marine Recon.

you think you go a bit easier when you are getting elbowed in the face for fun and not for reals?

 

[drop bear]

Does the Military ever teach that stuff to the public?

It's something that I actually would love to get into.

I know a guy.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Because its the same song and dance regardless of the source. It's the typical TMA response to the "threat" of MMA. Which frankly just boils down to TMA schools losing business to MMA gyms. What clowns like this don't understand is that the REASON people are moving away from TMA styles to MMA gyms is because they're simply smarter consumers.

Also that vid was terrible. If that's the highlight reel, I shudder to think what a typical class looks like.

Okie dokie, generalize bash away and enjoy

 

[jks9199]

Folks,
Style and art bashing are against the rules, so I am sure nobody is intentionally doing any of that, right?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk

 

[drop bear]

The thing is if there is better sparring than mma. I would like to hear it.

I mean you cant bite peoples ears of sparring. So you need to limit the techniques while maintaining as much of the range of techniques as you can.

This is going to mean protective gear rules and a ref. Sorry but that is the reality.

but then think of the options mma sparring gives you. Because there is nothing forcing a mma sparring to be a ufc match.

So if you want to spar street principles of stand up evade and so on. Go for it. If you want to spar multiples nobody is stopping you. Weapons is fine as well. You don't have to reinvent sparring. Just tweak it a bit.

I often spar for standing restraints. There is even not many actual mma rules against this. (cant gooseneck) Now i can spar restraints against a guy who wants to knock my head off. Which gives me the best chance of pressure testing the sort of movements i need for the deadly street.

But what if you box? Well you can mma spar kung fu. Guess what. You can mma spar. Wrestle tkd. There are very few systems that will let you pressure test you system against others.

 

[Danny T]

The thing is if there is better sparring than mma. I would like to hear it.

I mean you cant bite peoples ears of sparring. So you need to limit the techniques while maintaining as much of the range of techniques as you can.

This is going to mean protective gear rules and a ref. Sorry but that is the reality.

but then think of the options mma sparring gives you. Because there is nothing forcing a mma sparring to be a ufc match.

So if you want to spar street principles of stand up evade and so on. Go for it. If you want to spar multiples nobody is stopping you. Weapons is fine as well. You don't have to reinvent sparring. Just tweak it a bit.

I often spar for standing restraints. There is even not many actual mma rules against this. (cant gooseneck) Now i can spar restraints against a guy who wants to knock my head off. Which gives me the best chance of pressure testing the sort of movements i need for the deadly street.

But what if you box? Well you can mma spar kung fu. Guess what. You can mma spar. Wrestle tkd. There are very few systems that will let you pressure test you system against others.

Curious to know what would you call a silat player sparring a boxer or a wrestler? Is that mma or is it just a couple of practitioners sparring? I have my wing chun practitioners spar vs my muay thai students. I have my csw students spar the muay thai and the wc students, is that mma or is just sparring?

 

[drop bear]

Curious to know what would you call a silat player sparring a boxer or a wrestler? Is that mma or is it just a couple of practitioners sparring? I have my wing chun practitioners spar vs my muay thai students. I have my csw students spar the muay thai and the wc students, is that mma or is just sparring?

how far off reservation are you going with the sparring?

If it is basic mma rules then it is mma sparring. If one party is doing jumping ninja chops or something. that is their business but it is still mma sparring.

 

[drop bear]

The rule set kind of gives you a skill set. We mma,box,kickbox,shoot box,wrestle and hits. And it just focuses on different skills you should know and different environments you should explore.

 

[K-man]

The thing is if there is better sparring than mma. I would like to hear it.

Some of us have been trying for a long time to show what we think is as good. Unfortunately some people have no intention of accepting there is an alternative, so I, for one, have given up trying to change the opinion of those who who will not accept that anything else could possible be as good as MMA.

 

[Danny T]

I am having my players spar according to their perspective training vs another's. Do we do 3 minute or 5 minute rds; sometimes. Other times it is for 10 seconds and is geared toward self-defense and escaping. Sometimes it is vs multiple opponents using their particular methods of attacking or fight. My mma fighter's do 3 & 5 minute rds per the rules of the governing body for mma. Our mma sparring is specific to the rules of mma not self defense. Our submission wrestling is different for mma vs self defense but they do spar vs each other. Funny thing is the mma guys complain the most about the self defense guys not engaging or just getting away when they are able. The sparring tactics are similar even the same but the strategies are different.

 

[drop bear]

Some of us have been trying for a long time to show what we think is as good. Unfortunately some people have no intention of accepting there is an alternative, so I, for one, have given up trying to change the opinion of those who who will not accept that anything else could possible be as good as MMA.

The combat scenarios. Which you can do in mma sparring. All the way from compliant to fully resisted.

 

[drop bear]

I am having my players spar according to their perspective training vs another's. Do we do 3 minute or 5 minute rds; sometimes. Other times it is for 10 seconds and is geared toward self-defense and escaping. Sometimes it is vs multiple opponents using their particular methods of attacking or fight. My mma fighter's do 3 & 5 minute rds per the rules of the governing body for mma. Our mma sparring is specific to the rules of mma not self defense. Our submission wrestling is different for mma vs self defense but they do spar vs each other. Funny thing is the mma guys complain the most about the self defense guys not engaging or just getting away when they are able. The sparring tactics are similar even the same but the strategies are different.

But the same basic method?

No becoming the jelly fish while five guys lightly punch you like in that super sparring video?

no wandering out into the car park and doing takedowns on broken glass for realism?

 

[drop bear]

I am having my players spar according to their perspective training vs another's. Do we do 3 minute or 5 minute rds; sometimes. Other times it is for 10 seconds and is geared toward self-defense and escaping. Sometimes it is vs multiple opponents using their particular methods of attacking or fight. My mma fighter's do 3 & 5 minute rds per the rules of the governing body for mma. Our mma sparring is specific to the rules of mma not self defense. Our submission wrestling is different for mma vs self defense but they do spar vs each other. Funny thing is the mma guys complain the most about the self defense guys not engaging or just getting away when they are able. The sparring tactics are similar even the same but the strategies are different.

And a good point different strategies. Where the pressure testing is kind of the same but a different focus.