Martial Arts? It's BS.

[JohnEdward]

I will probably be kicked off the board for this, having an opinion. I don't live the martial arts lie. No chi or ki fantasy sucker b.s. No "*****" renfair pretend what "ifs." No delusional Oprah self defense crap. No Koolaid MMA fighter macho lies. No keyboard warrior crap. I live in Texas, I own guns. Lots of them. I know the law and I know how to use them. The most effective waza is a gun, and everyone can use a gun. Some better than others. Some have access and legally carry them and some don't. All the nambie pambies who think their MMA to Ninja skills will save their *** think twice, the ******* punk robbing you threatening your life with gun, bat, knife, isn't a black belt in MMA or Ninjitsu B.S.

Penn and Teller have it right....any responsible martial arts instructor would tell you the same.

The number one rule in the self defense of Mother Nature is.....awareness
The number two rule is not making yourself vulnerable to the opportunity of an attack - don't be a target
The number three rule is there is a cost to engagement win or lose

Penn said it well, if confronted like he was suck up your ego, remove the chip on your shoulder and pour a milk shake on your head.
Fact, women who are raped will fight back more successfully the second time, some will kill their rapist. And it isn't attributed to martial arts or self defense training.

You are more likely to be killed or hurt trying some ******** martial art, MMA move on a street criminal. Because they are B.S. moves, and the "martial artist" is just that an "artist" or sport fighter. Not someone experienced in being threatened with your life. Real life isn't the movies or a sports venue. Here is the goddamn facts, street criminals run in packs. You're not attacked by one, or two, but by three and four criminals that are often armed......

IF engaged in self-defense situation and you don't have a gun, can't run, or avoid the situation, years of Kata, or rolling on the mat isn't going to save you from an ***-whooping etc. when faced with a SINGLE attacker. What will save you from an ***-whooping or worse is, things like determination, strong will, commitment, everything non-martial arts trained criminals use. Things martial arts really can't give you a "black belt" in. Street criminals don't spend $$$$ earning a black belt. They don't spend hours training hundreds of deadly moves. The don't roll on the mat. They are more successful with out all that B.S. think about that.

Awareness and avoidance are proven techniques, and not B.S. martial arts techniques, ask Mother Nature if you don't believe me. Remember in martial art is the word ART.

Go ahead, troll's and hacks, flame me because you disagree, complain and whine to the board Admin. They are pissed at me anyone for the same reasons, and instead of flaming me they just exercise their power to restrict me from posting, silencing my voice thus allowing other to continue to flame and harass me. Quite the characters. Go ahead, stop me from post here because I don't take troll's and flamer's crap and throw it back at them. Go ahead and label me as a troll as a result of knee jerk reactions to reading my posts. As this is my last post here in this bizarre twisted world of so many key board warriors, trolls and hacks.

 

[poollshark]

I agree with most of what you wrote John. I will say however that if I am confronted with a situation where I have no avenue of retreat or escape and I'm forced into a physical altercation my MA/SD training can be the difference maker. I know I am certainly better off with my training than without. I know this from experience.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

I will probably be kicked off the board for this, having an opinion....
Go ahead, troll's and hacks, flame me because you disagree, complain and whine to the board Admin. They are pissed at me anyone for the same reasons, and instead of flaming me they just exercise their power to restrict me from posting, silencing my voice thus allowing other to continue to flame and harass me. Quite the characters. Go ahead, stop me from post here because I don't take troll's and flamer's crap and throw it back at them. Go ahead and label me as a troll as a result of knee jerk reactions to reading my posts. As this is my last post here in this bizarre twisted world of so many key board warriors, trolls and hacks.

Admin Note:
John was 'kicked off' after he had already quit (based on his blanking of his profile and comments posted on it by him). He, and everyone here is welcome to their opinions. He is upset because his access to the Womens area was removed after he trolled it and repeatedly violated policy.
We have rules.
So we wish him well in his future endeavors.

Mean while, subject here is the P&T BS episode on martial arts. Lets stick to that.
Thanks.

 

[Ironcrane]

I think I'm going to have to agree with those who call bs on this video about bs. They're not pulling out the nuttiest people they can find to demonstrate that there are some Martial Artists that aren't all they're cracked up to be. They're using those fringe people to show that Martial Arts is bs. Every single bit of it. They also took things out of context, when it came to students helping their own school, and twisted it to suit their agenda.
I've been put in charge of teaching classes, and I've stayed after to help clean the place up. And I even pay fees to do it. And I do it all because I care about my Martial Arts school, and respect the fact that said school still has to pay rent.

 

[Sukerkin]

Of course there were parts of this which twisted and distorted and otherwise made ridicule of certain parts of martial arts - it's supposed to be an entertaining rant after all. It made me laugh and I've been involved in martial arts since I was a teenager. Some nails were hit on the head and some were bent over by the hammer because they missed the point (or should that be "head" in this case ).

Loony instructors, crazy pseudo-arts, exploitative schools ... all these things exist. If I was to try to treat it as serious journalism I would say, certainly, what they did was not balanced and they took some extremes to stand for the whole (kind of like people getting hot under the collar about the OWS malarkey based on a few 'data points').

Have a chuckle, smile and nod at the bits that are true and shake your head at those that aren't and go and watch "Enter the Dojo" :lol:.

 

[Sanke]

I'm more a fan of Penn and Teller's style, but I can see why allot of others aren't. Penn's voice can get awfully grating at times...

When I watched this, it was some time ago with some fellow students of mine, and we spent parts laughing, parts agreeing, and parts yelling at the screen.
There's some good points, a few rubbish points, though I feel their biases ended up ruling the episode (if not the whole series) and it ended up being a pretty skewed picture.

I personally don't think people really need to watch the show to have an opinion on the matter.
The subjects they cover are quite broad, and most, if not all have come across them. The show just lays them out with a very specific agenda, I can see why people wouldn't want to sit through a half hour of what they already know.


Sanke on the move.

 

[Sanke]

Have a chuckle, smile and nod at the bits that are true and shake your head at those that aren't and go and watch "Enter the Dojo" :lol:.

Sounds like a fun evening in



Sanke on the move.

 

[jks9199]

So Bill. The woman making the chicken sounds in there's a legit representative of the Chinese arts?


Here's my take on it all.
The chicken ladies a bit wacky. And I believe in chi.
The Karate guy knows a lot of parlor tricks. I want to see him withstand a tip strike from a 2x3, not one waaaaaay back where there's no power and the whipping action causes the board to stress fracture.
I don't want to run into Marc in a dark alley.



I think their whole point is, there's a lot of BS out there, and uneducated folks fall for it. Some folks pull weird stuff out of their 'jaxie' and make a living selling it to clueless folks. Some of it's legit.

In short, nothing we don't already know here.
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to watch them spank some cheerleaders. :s408:

I don't want to run into Marc MacYoung in a bright alley... or anywhere else.

The series this was lifted from had an agenda -- and each episode had an agenda. Penn Jillette has lots of agendas -- but most of them can be summed up by "think for yourself." From many accounts -- he'd probably congratulate bill for disliking him.

The episode wasn't all bad -- but it did go overboard on a few points, and (as usual), it cherry picked quotes. Anyone asked to appear on that show that was shocked by that didn't do their homework...

 

[jks9199]

The short bit I saw strongly that it was unethical and immoral for an Isshin-Ryu instructor to have his students mop floors or teach without pay; this directly after inferring (but cleverly not libelously stating outright) that such instructors make thousands of dollars from promotions and awarding worthless 'belts' that can be purchase outright for huge sums of money inside of a year. By intertwining the McDojo belt mills that we martial artists know about with video and audio clips from what appears to be a legitimate Isshin-Ryu dojo, the strong impression is given (intentionally) that all martial arts are frauds, that as the title states, martial arts are ********. Well, screw that noise.

But, Bill, aren't there indeed instructors that DO do just that? Use senior students as unpaid and often paying employees? Charging students dues, testing fees, promotional fees, and requiring various club memberships? Yeah -- there are. This particular guy may have been made the scapegoat for all those others, but if he didn't do any checking into what he was about to appear on, well... shame on him. I'd be damn careful what they asked me to do on that show, or several others.

 

[Tez3]

What other subjects have been done by these two and were the conclusions the same ie people unknowingly being 'ripped off' and made to look stupid by this?

 

[kbarrett]

I don't know this person, but as I watch the video, there are so good and bad points being made, I have no prblem with any one making martial arts a business or a living from teaching martail arts, because I do like many others. I think martial arts training can be effective for self-defesnse, it all depends on the person training and the quality of the instruction, you can't just glide along the surface of any MA, you must dive deep into that MA to understand how things will or won't work in a live attack on the street, where there are no rules, MA works it's up to you the student to make it work, and the instructor making sure you understand what it is your learning and the difference between the dojang (dojo) and the streets.

Sincerely
Ken Barrett

 

[Sukerkin]

What other subjects have been done by these two and were the conclusions the same ie people unknowingly being 'ripped off' and made to look stupid by this?

With 'reality' TV of any stripe, I find it hard to fathom why people go on it ... but they do. It's Penn and Teller and a series called "********!", not Newsnight. If people didn't know beforehand what they were letting themselves in for I'd be quite surprised. Especially given the litigious nature of the USA I would have thought the producers would have made very clear there was a considerable chance of personal embarrassment.

Also, in the end, as I said before, most of what was covered was not wrong, just couched in a piss-taking fashion and applied with a broad brush.

I'm quite surprised that you, of all people, is taking umbrage at it given that you associate with 'professional' piss-takers in your off-duty activities .

 

[jron]

I agree, you HAVE to watch it to have an opinion. Mine is, they had an agenda when they started filming the episode and they kept to that agenda, misleading as it may be.

Inflated confidence, BS board breaking spot on.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

But, Bill, aren't there indeed instructors that DO do just that? Use senior students as unpaid and often paying employees? Charging students dues, testing fees, promotional fees, and requiring various club memberships? Yeah -- there are. This particular guy may have been made the scapegoat for all those others, but if he didn't do any checking into what he was about to appear on, well... shame on him. I'd be damn careful what they asked me to do on that show, or several others.

BS. None of the instructors in our dojo get paid, and students clean and perform other work for the dojo. And it's because the dojo does not charge enough to pay salaries to instructors and hired cleaning staff; but the owner draws no pay either; it's essentially non-profit. Since we're also Isshin-Ryu, I presume this is their circumstance as well. And the show didn't say "Oh, here are a collection of actions which may or may not be naughty and fraudulent." No, it flat-out stated that this guy, he's a fraud. Look how he makes a fortune (which it implied, but did not state outright) and makes his students perform slave labor for him. That's not instructive, that's not accurate, and it sure as hell is not going to leave non-martial arts viewers with an open mind about martial arts training, including this dojo, whose instructor he just made out to be a crook. **** PENN JILLETTE in the ear. BS, BS, BS. It's slanderous and fricking evil. If I met Penn Jillette on the street, I'd spit in his ****ing eye.

 

[Carol]

Penn Jillette is a commanding speaker, but just because he says something doesn't mean it is an undisputed fact. Remember, they are illusionists. When he says something, it is because he wants you to believe it is an undisputed fact, not that it IS an undisputed fact. (Talk about BS!)

One example, on the second Captain Howdy album, Penn talks about Harry Houdini's favorite song, Rosabelle. They discussed performing the song, and how it took a search going all the way to the Library of Congress, where they finally found the sheet music in a box labeled "1890s". This doesn't pass the sniff test! The sheet music can be found online at the NY Public Library's site. The song they performed was not from the sheet music, a few lines were either misheard or deliberately changed...so when they were presented to Debbie Harry to change, she sang the wrong words. Three, the words she sang might be more consistent with the language of today, but not the language of 100 years ago -- while the sheet music is consistent with the language of 100 years ago (but not necessarily today).

I'll comment more once I have watched both videos in their entirety.

 

[jron]

do you teach sport fighting or a self defense regimine. What are your thoughts about the "murder charges" for the self defense school, I'm thinking that one was maybe krav maga or something similar?

 

[Em MacIntosh]

It's an act.

Penn seems to be arrogant, self-righteous and obtuse but I think he's just another guy trying to make a living. Penn reminds me of Michael Moore, a businessman who appears passionate about his points but just treats it as a means to an end, the end being money. His interest in "debunking" is as big as the cheque he makes off it. As illusionists I suspect Penn and Teller have at least done some research, if not study, in the martial arts (Ninjitsu?) and are well aware of their situational and overall usefulness.

Mythbusters are more fun anyway, they have Kari and they blow stuff up.

 

[Tez3]

With 'reality' TV of any stripe, I find it hard to fathom why people go on it ... but they do. It's Penn and Teller and a series called "********!", not Newsnight. If people didn't know beforehand what they were letting themselves in for I'd be quite surprised. Especially given the litigious nature of the USA I would have thought the producers would have made very clear there was a considerable chance of personal embarrassment.

Also, in the end, as I said before, most of what was covered was not wrong, just couched in a piss-taking fashion and applied with a broad brush.

I'm quite surprised that you, of all people, is taking umbrage at it given that you associate with 'professional' piss-takers in your off-duty activities .

I didn't so much take umbrage as shake my head, I've never seen or actually heard of these people before, I thought it was supposed to be serious and thought their style was the 'dumbing down' thing I've seen before in some American programmes that purport to be serious commentary.

 

[poollshark]

Inflated confidence, BS board breaking spot on.

Minor points, their agenda was to paint the entire MA community with one broad stroke as a rip off, money making(for owners) waste of time(for students). While there are plenty of schools that fit this description, there are many that don't.

 

[Cyriacus]

Minor points, their agenda was to paint the entire MA community with one broad stroke as a rip off, money making(for owners) waste of time(for students). While there are plenty of schools that fit this description, there are many that don't.

As I would put it, they found 'Proof' to Support their Concept, Ignoring anything to the Contrary. They found only Good Examples to Support their Sweeping Statements.
Like what they said about Manslaughter in Self Defense. It doesnt work that way, at all. Youre not just going to Autopilot into Murder. Youre more likely to do that WITHOUT Training, I feel.