Martial Arts and Magic

[Tgace]

A recent thread mentioned various "Martial Arts Magic" displays. Catching arrows, moving objects with "Chi", tearing quarters in half etc. It also reminded me of all the various other stunts ive seen. Driving trucks over peoples abdomens, piercing with needles and lifting objects, blindfold slicing of watermelons on people with Katana and so on. How prevalent is that stuff still in the MA community? Does anybodies school use this stuff at demos anymore? And in the end, do those who do these things really believe the whole "supernatural" BS? Or is it just plain showmanship and PR?

 

[Tgace]

For example...check out this guys selling points.

http://www.thearrowcatcher.com.au/

Now I dont want to turn this into a "fraud busting" escapade as much as a discussion of what people believe and how those beliefs are being used. Are these legit skills, just misguided people teaching BS, or blatant marketing of dangerous beliefs?

 

[rupton]

A recent thread mentioned various "Martial Arts Magic" displays. Catching arrows, moving objects with "Chi", tearing quarters in half etc. It also reminded me of all the various other stunts ive seen. Driving trucks over peoples abdomens, piercing with needles and lifting objects, blindfold slicing of watermelons on people with Katana and so on. How prevalent is that stuff still in the MA community? Does anybodies school use this stuff at demos anymore? And in the end do those who do these things really believe the whole "supernatural" BS or is it just plain showmanship and PR?

I haven't seen a lot of this myself. In my dojo we show stuff like unbendable arm and similar things but this isn't so much a ki trick as much as a demonstration of focus, leverage etc. We do train to break "ki" around specific pressure points and disrupting the meridian flow(s) but again I view these more of a real physiological aspect to the way rather than ki tricks. That's about as far as I personally go I know that by using terms like meridian flow I'm risking being labled as "one of those people" but whether you beleive striking those areas disrupts ki or not, you simply can't argue the point it hurts like mad and has an immediate impact And no, I do not believe the supernatural aspect of it one bit!!!

 

[hardheadjarhead]

A recent thread mentioned various "Martial Arts Magic" displays. Catching arrows, moving objects with "Chi", tearing quarters in half etc. It also reminded me of all the various other stunts ive seen. Driving trucks over peoples abdomens, piercing with needles and lifting objects, blindfold slicing of watermelons on people with Katana and so on. How prevalent is that stuff still in the MA community? Does anybodies school use this stuff at demos anymore? And in the end, do those who do these things really believe the whole "supernatural" BS? Or is it just plain showmanship and PR?

They're fairly common stunts, and those doing them for PR and showmanship frequently want their audience to believe it is supernatural.

Now, I confess to using some of these. I do a "Magic Sword of the Hermit Chin Lee" trick for my kids, wherein I slice a banana without peeling it. The peel stays undamaged, and when peeled away reveals the fruit underneath "sliced" into segments.

Afterwards, though, I explain the trick. Magicians never do this...but I'm no magician.

One of the T'ai Chi instructors here at the school will occasionally do some stunts like these for the children. They include:

Tearing or biting a quarter in half.

Folding a penny between his thumb and forefingers (sound familiar?).

Using "ki" to douse a candle from a dozen feet away...even with a glass partition separating the candle from the person doing the trick.

The watermelon slice off the stomach isn't as impressive as the back muscles of the "victim" who stays supported between two chairs with the watermelon on his stomach. Lock your arms out and the blade will only travel so far. Use a nice crisp melon and cut two thirds through, and it'll split itself the rest of the way.

Then, of course, there is the bed of nails. I do that for the kids from time to time, and then explain the physics of it.

When younger, lots younger, I wanted to believe such stuff meant something. Now I'm an ardent skeptic. It is fun, though, trying to figure out how some stunts are pulled off.

Would it interest anyone to use this thread to expose how these tricks are pulled off? I'll post the secrets of "The Magic Sword of the Hermit Chin Lee," but you have to try and guess first.


I mean, hey, I spent fourteen years studying with him on Oh Dae mountain in Korea when I was a child. I'm not going to just GIVE his secrets away, you know?



Regards,


Steve

 

[Tgace]

Is that the "string a thread through a banana with a needle to slice it" trick?

And yeah, if people are going to use this stuff as a selling point for MA, then expose away....

 

[kenpochad]

i can rip the yellow pages in half am talking the one thats 3-4 inchs thick

its just like anything all in the techniques

 

[hardheadjarhead]

Is that the "string a thread through a banana with a needle to slice it" trick?


Well, you don't use a string. The needle alone will do it.

Close enough, grasshopper. You get to ascend to the next level of the temple.


Regards,


Steve

 

[Tgace]

http://tkdtutor.com/04Students/School/PseudoMasters.htm

A little on the "fraud busting" side of the house, but a lot of interesting writing about this kind of stuff.

Pseudoscience is fake science. The surest way to spot a fake is to know as much as possible about the real thing. Knowing science does not mean simply knowing scientific facts, it means understanding how science works: the criteria of evidence, the design of meaningful experiments, the weighing of possibilities, the testing of hypotheses, the establishment of theories, the many aspects of scientific methods that make it possible to draw reliable conclusions about the physical universe. Many pseudo-masters use pseudoscience to convince students that their style of martial arts is valid. Pseudoscience often strikes educated, rational people as too nonsensical and preposterous to be dangerous and as a source of amusement rather than fear. Unfortunately, this is not a wise attitude. Pseudoscience may be extremely dangerous, especially to the under-educated.

 

[Makalakumu]

I do the straw thrust through the potato trick. That one is simple and the kids can usually pick it up in a minute or two. The physics behind it are interesting...although I'm hard pressed to come up with a real martial arts analogy for it. Somehow, defending oneself with a drinking straw does not seem like a wise strategy.

Oh well, if it works...

 

[Tgace]

LOL!!!

http://streetcombat.8m.com/main.html

Read the last weapon in the "M.N.S.S Weapons" section...this has to be a joke site...right???

http://bristolian.8m.com/america.html

 

[Floating Egg]

If you've been shown how to do something with an explanation that you desperately want to believe, then you're far less likely to investigate further.

 

[Makalakumu]

LOL!!!

http://streetcombat.8m.com/main.html

I got about half way through and choked on my coffee...:barf:

 

[Tgace]

I edited my original post on that one....

Read the last weapon in the "M.N.S.S Weapons" section (and everything below it)...this has to be a joke site...right???

http://bristolian.8m.com/america.html

 

[Makalakumu]

I edited my original post on that one....

Read the last weapon in the "M.N.S.S Weapons" section (and everything below it)...this has to be a joke site...right???

http://bristolian.8m.com/america.html

That bit about being a three dimensional fighter...

When we think of becoming a well-rounded fighter, we only think in two dimensions, vertical or horizontal-- standing upright (punching, kicking, throws, ect,) or groundfighting. However, since we live in a 3 dimensional world, we can't keep thinking of fighting in just two dimensions. M.N.S.S. 3 dimensional fighting tactics created by Master Bristol uses the environment to your advantage. We can no longer think of just fighting while standing or on the ground.

That is so last Thursday.

I will prepare you to be a Forth Dimensional fighter. That's right folks. Time travel. Using the using the secret techniques of the prescience gigong set developed at the secret temple of Dumbaskus one can astrally project into the future in order to learn an opponent's intent and attack him from the past of the future you've already witnessed!

 

[Makalakumu]

I edited my original post on that one....

Read the last weapon in the "M.N.S.S Weapons" section (and everything below it)...this has to be a joke site...right???

http://bristolian.8m.com/america.html

Um...I guess Size really does Matter...

 

[kenpochad]

have you ever seen people do combat ki they sand there and let four people

punch them in the neck at the same time

 

[Floating Egg]

have you ever seen people do combat ki they sand there and let four people

punch them in the neck at the same time

Yes, I have some familiarity with that, and for the most part, combat ki practitioners genuinely believe that they're actually using ki.

 

[Kenpodoc]

I edited my original post on that one....

Read the last weapon in the "M.N.S.S Weapons" section (and everything below it)...this has to be a joke site...right???

http://bristolian.8m.com/america.html

I loved this part.

Fecal Aura Analysis For Health and Spirituality
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The ancient art of fecal aura analogy (Tinigu'fat) is taken and refined by Hans Eric Bristol during his studies in India and Turkey. You will learn how to analyze your own stool immediately upon release. The shape, texture, smell, and color of the stool will accurately describe your physical condition. Learn that you may have ailments like diabetes, breast cancer, high blood pressure, and stress just from observing your feces. Also, your spiritual well-being and fortune can be construed from this. Analyze the space of the stool from one another and the position of it in the toilet bowl. This can accurately predict your future. We have to first let go of the intimidation that most of us have to stool. Stool is a part of us. It's a part of our body like our arms and legs. Even if we cut off our arm, the arm will still have blood and energy for minutes after it is severed from the body. Stool is no different. It has bio-electric energy (chi or prana) that our body and spirit gave to it. Part of our spirit is in the stool. There can be myriad of things we can learn from it. Though fecal aura analogy is a very complicated art form, the step-by-step teachings at the seminars will help you analyze your own and anyone else's stool with enormous accuracy.

How do you suppose they do these seminars?
Jeff

 

[Makalakumu]

How do you suppose they do these seminars?

BYOB of course...

Bring Your Own Baggies

 

[rupton]

I edited my original post on that one....

Read the last weapon in the "M.N.S.S Weapons" section (and everything below it)...this has to be a joke site...right???

Oh great, a special breathing technique to make you instantly erect. Does this mean I'm going to start getting spamed with this crap instead of Viagra ads? This has to be a spoof on something, this can't be for real. Can it?