Well, think about what the initials "BS" stand for. That didgeridoo player probably had to be careful to avoid stepping in any.Are you guys seriously talking about musical instruments and cows in a thread called BS and the internal arts?
BS and the internal arts.
- Thread starter oaktree
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mograph
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See? Tony's on-topic!
It's goes deeper. Practitioners of internal arts are often concerned with cultivating their chi. Cultivation of chi is often done through breathing exercises. What's the most difficult aspect of playing the didgeridoo? Mastering the breathing!
See - it all ties together!
What do you think about the following "internal" training?
- Both you and your opponent stand in 45 degree angles with right leg forward. Your chest face NW while your opponent's chest faces SE.
- You put your right palm on your opponent's belly.
- Your opponent puts his right palm on your belly.
- Your opponent pushes his palm on your belly and tries to move you toward east.
- You try not to be moved by your opponent, you try to transfer his pushing force into your push and move him toward west instead.
Do you think this training is
- useful?
- not quite useful?
- BS?
- Both you and your opponent stand in 45 degree angles with right leg forward. Your chest face NW while your opponent's chest faces SE.
- You put your right palm on your opponent's belly.
- Your opponent puts his right palm on your belly.
- Your opponent pushes his palm on your belly and tries to move you toward east.
- You try not to be moved by your opponent, you try to transfer his pushing force into your push and move him toward west instead.
Do you think this training is
- useful?
- not quite useful?
- BS?
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Xue Sheng
All weight is underside
Never seen that in internal training in Xingyi, Bagua or Taijiquan, therefore I cannot comment based on your description
OP
oaktree
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Well I am going to see if I can get the correct picture I think I am facing I guess left and my opponent is facing right so I am taking it as my left leg is my lead leg? And my opponent is a mirror image with right leg as his lead? I am taking it the off balance is towards my right or back and right side?
The way Baguazhang handles a push or pull off balance is with turning and using the force to generate the turn. The harder the push the more energy given to turn.
In Taijiquan at least my understanding the harder the push the more relaxed I become until I off balance you or redirect your force. I don't mean to say these are set rules.
OP
oaktree
Master of Arts
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A little bit more on my thoughts about force.
I use the extreme example of say the size of a line backer who can generate force at speed so he has power, I don't want to absorb that force, because any miscalculation and I am run over.
What I want to do is get off that line of force and at the right timing attack the point where he is weakest could be a simple trip as he places his foot down, or a hooking of the leg. I am curious to hear how other people would handle a line backer rushing in at them.
I use the extreme example of say the size of a line backer who can generate force at speed so he has power, I don't want to absorb that force, because any miscalculation and I am run over.
What I want to do is get off that line of force and at the right timing attack the point where he is weakest could be a simple trip as he places his foot down, or a hooking of the leg. I am curious to hear how other people would handle a line backer rushing in at them.
Both you and your opponent have right leg forward and push belly by right palm. Whoever's foot moves first will lose.
I don't train this and I don't have any picture and clip for this. I saw people who trained this move last weekend in 2016 Houston Kung Fu tournament (I was a Taiji push hand judge in that tournament).
I think the idea is to be able to transfer your opponent's pushing force back to himself. Does this kind of training have any MA value?
From a
- wrestler point of view, you want to take advantage on your opponent's push and add into your pull. You don't want to transfer force back to him.
- striker point of view, your opponent wants to punch you and he won't push you.
Assume you have spend many years to develop this skill (transfer your opponent's force back to him), when and where in MA will you apply it?
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OP
oaktree
Master of Arts
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I'm guessing by pushing his force back into you try to unbalance him, if that is the case as I am being pushed I would rotate my body and pull him so my opponent is off balance. Yes there is martial applications in it, but again with a line backer at full force your timing has to be perfect and in my opinion there is to much chance of error and better means to deal with the force.
Yes the technique can be turned into a pull as soon as he gives your energy back, you can turn as he pushes, you can push or pull right when he is about to push to off balance him too.
Zeny
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KFW,
From overall martial arts perspective, that method of training may be useful. Your body accepts force from an external source, and you learn to re-channel that force back into the opponent. After over a hundred hours of such training, you may begin to be able to use it at will in an instant and your opponent may be taken by surprise.
However, from a taijiquan perspective, that method is completely useless. For me lightness and non-resistance is the overall objective. My partner has recently described my hand as feeling as light as a piece of paper. This is the result of many hours of relaxation exercises, non-use of force and non-resistance. As such the method of training you described would cause me to regress.
From overall martial arts perspective, that method of training may be useful. Your body accepts force from an external source, and you learn to re-channel that force back into the opponent. After over a hundred hours of such training, you may begin to be able to use it at will in an instant and your opponent may be taken by surprise.
However, from a taijiquan perspective, that method is completely useless. For me lightness and non-resistance is the overall objective. My partner has recently described my hand as feeling as light as a piece of paper. This is the result of many hours of relaxation exercises, non-use of force and non-resistance. As such the method of training you described would cause me to regress.
Get behind my guard.
Stay behind your defensive linemen, drop back, and pass.
A full speed charge is easy enough to dodge, in most situations. Or you can throw a nice solid kick out there and let them add their power to yours. That ought to hurt a bit...
There's lots of options, obviously.
If I feel
- I am stronger than my opponent, I'll charge in at the same time. My opponent's forward movement can save me 1/2 of my forward movement.
- my opponent is strong than me, I'll use "stealing step", move myself out of his attacking path, give him all the space that he will need, add my force on him, and lead him into the emptiness (kiss the dirt). I want to be where he was, and I want him to be where I was.
mograph
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Yes. Bones can be broken. Our body has our limits.
