Martial are "More" than mere sport?

[YoungMan]

A person will not learn these positive traits if they are not reinforced in the classroom setting. I think the instructor has an obligation, especially if he is teaching a traditional martial art, to pass along these traits. Why? It goes back to one of the differences between MMA and traditional arts.

In traditional arts, you are learning techniques that are designed ultimately to hurt, maim, and kill. You are not training to make points in a ring, you are training to make destructive power against another human being if necessary. Therefore, that awesome power must be tempered, in the same way that a Samurai sword is tempered with softness, with a sense of humility, respect for humanity, and compassion.

With MMA on the other hand, you are training to fight in a ring. Your mindset is to make a point and tap the guy out. MMA fighters tend not to practice the characteristics mentioned above because they are practice to ultimately hurt or kill. They train to score points. Any of the character building lessons they learn come from outside MMA. The unfortunate result is that many MMA fighters don't see these characteristics as necessary and don't integrate them with their life. Studies have shown MMA don't practice the positive philosophical aspects that traditional stylists do.

 

[Hyper_Shadow]

Martial arts are just that. Arts (get a thesaurus out....) used within a martial (wartime) setting. Therefor martial arts have to be something completely aside from sports. Simple answer is when you step through the doors of your dojo/place to train you do so aware that you are learning to harm other people. Whether you do it to 'defend the peace' or 'enhance your mind body and soul' is irrelevant to what MA's true nature is. As a martial artist you have to have the strength of character and correct tutelage to come to terms with this paradox and to use the skills you acquire in order to make the world around you a more livable place.

 

[Nolerama]

A person will not learn these positive traits if they are not reinforced in the classroom setting. I think the instructor has an obligation, especially if he is teaching a traditional martial art, to pass along these traits. Why? It goes back to one of the differences between MMA and traditional arts.

In traditional arts, you are learning techniques that are designed ultimately to hurt, maim, and kill. You are not training to make points in a ring, you are training to make destructive power against another human being if necessary. Therefore, that awesome power must be tempered, in the same way that a Samurai sword is tempered with softness, with a sense of humility, respect for humanity, and compassion.

With MMA on the other hand, you are training to fight in a ring. Your mindset is to make a point and tap the guy out. MMA fighters tend not to practice the characteristics mentioned above because they are practice to ultimately hurt or kill. They train to score points. Any of the character building lessons they learn come from outside MMA. The unfortunate result is that many MMA fighters don't see these characteristics as necessary and don't integrate them with their life. Studies have shown MMA don't practice the positive philosophical aspects that traditional stylists do.

Sorry, but you don't "get it." Maybe that will be revealed to you one day.

I don't train to score points. I train to see possibilities in a fighting situation, and decide which technique to use.

Train in MMA for a month, and you'll figure it out, as well as the fact that all MMA people come from different TMAs.

Humility, submission, compassion? Read a good book, or get a demanding girlfriend or something. I'm not going to lie to myself and think that paying for a class is going to teach me those things.

 

[Hyper_Shadow]

Humility, submission, compassion? Read a good book, or get a demanding girlfriend or something. I'm not going to lie to myself and think that paying for a class is going to teach me those things.

Well said. The morality doesn't change the fact that real MAs are designed to kill other people. In war there are no winners or losers only those that are alive and those that are not. In war, everyone loses.

 

[Andrew Green]

Martial arts are just that. Arts (get a thesaurus out....) used within a martial (wartime) setting. Therefor martial arts have to be something completely aside from sports. Simple answer is when you step through the doors of your dojo/place to train you do so aware that you are learning to harm other people. Whether you do it to 'defend the peace' or 'enhance your mind body and soul' is irrelevant to what MA's true nature is. As a martial artist you have to have the strength of character and correct tutelage to come to terms with this paradox and to use the skills you acquire in order to make the world around you a more livable place.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/martial arts

No entries found...

Did you mean dictionary?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/martial arts

"any of several arts of combat and self defense (as karate and judo) that are widely practiced as sport"

Nothing about wartime... but there is that "s" word in there.

In fact the vast majority of things practiced as "Martial Arts" never had anything to do with wartime, they where civilian arts, not military. Military arts involve weapons, you don't go out onto a battlefield unarmed, and you will not be engaged in one-on-one combat.

In traditional arts, you are learning techniques that are designed ultimately to hurt, maim, and kill.

So how many limbs have you snapped and people have you crippled in the course of learning this? Or do you apply safety rules like stopping when the person taps or pulling shots? If so, how exactly is this different? If I use a arm bar and don't stop the persons arm breaks. If I use a choke they pass out. If I throw you on your head without a mat you probably won't get up.

MMA techniques are more then capable of crippling a person, but that is bad training. Everyone ends up injured and then no one can train anymore.

You are not training to make points in a ring, you are training to make destructive power against another human being if necessary. Therefore, that awesome power must be tempered, in the same way that a Samurai sword is tempered with softness, with a sense of humility, respect for humanity, and compassion.

Wow...

I'm gonna be honest, that's bordering Saturday morning cartoon introduction language.

Any of the character building lessons they learn come from outside MMA. The unfortunate result is that many MMA fighters don't see these characteristics as necessary and don't integrate them with their life.

Do you really think that good sportsmanship is not a requirement to train MMA in a safe way? Without it everyone would end up injured, there is no room for big egos in a MMA class, it is not safe for the person witht he ego, or the people they are working with.

Studies have shown MMA don't practice the positive philosophical aspects that traditional stylists do.

studies? What studies? Citation needed.

 

[jks9199]

Since I suspect it was my comment that started this... I'm kind of belated in my response.

The physical activities lumped under martial arts exist on a spectrum. On one end, you have movements oriented around esthetics and maybe health. (Think many community center tai chi or yoga programs and stage combat...) Somewhere in the middle you have competitive athletic activities, like boxing, kickboxing, MMA, TMA tournament competition, and lots more. These can be practiced as "mere" sports. Between those two points on the spectrum, you find things like cardiokickboxing/combat aerobics where the emphasis is on the workout, but not competition using it. At the other end of the spectrum, you've got combative martial activities, where the emphasis isn't preparing for competition, but developing real skills for real combat. Some examples would include krav maga, budo taijutsu, MCMAP, and police DT. Within those approaches, you have some that also try to shape the person's morals or character; you've got some that make no pretense at all about doing that. Very few, if any, of these approaches don't have some sort of focus on responsibility and balance in using the skills, even if it's just teaching the legal responsibilities and justifications.

With regard to teaching things like sportsmanship, self-discipline, "intestinal fortitude" to handle challenges... Many martial arts activities can do this. So can many sports. For every story of a kid turned around by martial arts, there are probably several stories of other sports like football or wrestling (which is technically a martial art...) or track or swimming... In any of these cases, it's the habits instilled through the climate of disciplined training that shapes the character -- it's not the specific activity. In other words -- it's the coach, not the sport.

There's another complicating factor in the martial arts. In the East, they got linked with religion in a couple of ways. In China, you had the Shaolin Temple (and other temples) becoming training centers for numerous cultural and historical reasons. In Japan, in response to other cultural and historical trends, the Budo system was developed, where the martial arts blended with Zen Buddhism and developed an emphasis on personal development. As martial arts were brought to the West by returning GIs and others, they brought the idea of martial arts being something more than simply a collection of quick-kill/dirty fighting secrets with them.

And then there's the simple fact that martial arts are related to warriorship or combat, and, for whatever reason, many cultures have decided that warriors, those who have seen combat, have been gifted with special wisdom and knowledge. This wisdom or knowledge has devolved upon the current practitioners of the methods of practice, whether or not it's warranted.