How do you feel about Seminars?

[Flying Crane]

Seminars are a big thing in the martial arts today. They serve to bring together people from within an organization, and can also be open to those outside the organization and even from vastly different arts.

How do you all feel about them? Do you like to attend them? Do you like to teach at them? What do you feel you learn at them, or what are you able to pass along if you are one of the teachers? What kind of topic do you feel is appropriate or inappropriate for a seminar setting? Do you feel you learn things that are a lasting benefit and a strong addition into your curriculum?

Personally, I'm not a big fan of them, but I'd like to see what people think, see what their take is on them and get a different perspective.

Thanks!

 

[jkembry]

I have only attended one seminar and I found it to be eye-opening and it continues to do so. I saw a lot of things about my style of karate from a Master of the art and was able to apply bits of what was taught to my training, and my every day life as well. As time goes on, other things that I saw during that weekend seem to become much more clear and seem to make sense where just a few weeks ago were clueless to me.

So yes, I believe they to have a benefit and have helped me along my path and I will most likely attend more as they become available in my area. That along with meeting others active in my style (and other styles as well) made for a great weekend for me and one that I will long remember.

 

[shihansmurf]

I have had several great seminar experiences.I've had a few not-so-great ones, as well.

I find that seminars that have a narrow focus on one or two concepts are the best. For example, I have a high dan grade TKD friend that has come into my class for a weekend and target trained everyone's sidekick. He fine tuned, corrected, devlved deeply into, disected, and seriously improved our sidekicks. It was a great experience.

I have strong hate for the seminars wherin you go for a weekend and are suddenly certified to teach an entire system. Krav Maga is one of the worst offenders of this typs.

Mark

 

[harlan]

Don't know...my first seminar experience is in a week. I'm going with an open mind...and a bag lunch...as it kinda broke my budget for the month. LOL! I'll be happy to give a first-timer's view afterwards.

 

[Pacificshore]

I attended the first Gathering of Eagles seminar in Vegas back in the late 90's. It was an all Kenpo deal put together by the Tracy Brothers. It was fine in that it brought together most all Kenpo flavors under one roof. I was able to experience some of the Kenpo systems I've heard or read about. Some systems that I thought I'd like to train in turned out the opposite, and vice versa with those I thought I wasn't too keen on.

Overall however, I don't ever really see seminars as a place where you go for any 'real' learning, but more of an exposure to either a particular system or concepts and principles of techniques and applications.

 

[terryl965]

Seminars are great for the average person to gain access to different styles of MA and also for those wishing to train with some great Masters or GM's of a particular style. I muself find it way demanding to really teach at alot of anymore, but we do bring in different people from across the globe to help inour training.

 

[Flying Crane]

Seminars are great for the average person to gain access to different styles of MA and also for those wishing to train with some great Masters or GM's of a particular style. I muself find it way demanding to really teach at alot of anymore, but we do bring in different people from across the globe to help inour training.

Hey Terry,

Are these people from within your org. or at least from within TKD, or people for other arts?

And what do they teach at the seminars that you feel helps your training?

Thanks!

 

[kosho]

I love seminars going and teaching at them when asked.

kosho

 

[terryl965]

Hey Terry,

Are these people from within your org. or at least from within TKD, or people for other arts?

And what do they teach at the seminars that you feel helps your training?

Thanks!

To be completely honest I bring in Kung FU sifu's to help with agility and people Like our own Brian VanCise for his ground and stick work, My wife enjoys Mr Parsons view on knife and stick, we also bring in Kempo for there chain punching. The only thing I have not brought in his MMA fighters, I believe each ones bring something different to the table to learn and incorporate into our S.D.. We also bring in people to help with our TKD. See I am a firm believer you can learn from various style and still keep the intregity ot your own. Mind you I am picky about who I bring in and I must feel like they have something to offer, I will not bring in any average Joe to explain techs. out of a book published in the fifties, not to say that ever happens.

 

[ChadB]

I love seminars as they can expose you to different ideas and tactics that your homebase may not be able to do.

With the limited amount of trainers out there it's really the only way to round out your game if that's what you are trying to do. I'd love it if there was a place that taught h2h, knife, stick, gun, tactics, psychology, etc.

Its unlikely, so a seminar here and there helps, and a mess of dvds of course.

The social aspect is great too. You get to meet people face to face that you've been communicating with through the forums.

 

[ChadB]

Another point, it would be nice to know ahead of time if its a focused seminar or a buffet. Sometimes you just want to get as much face time with a great instructor as possible for your money on one topic.

Other times, especially if you're in that exploratory mode, I do like to see and bunch of stuff at once to get me thinking again.

 

[Flying Crane]

To be completely honest I bring in Kung FU sifu's to help with agility and people Like our own Brian VanCise for his ground and stick work, My wife enjoys Mr Parsons view on knife and stick, we also bring in Kempo for there chain punching.

After the seminar is over, do you feel you have learned this material well enough to keep practicing it as part of your regular curriculum, or does it sort of get lost in the aftermath? Do you have opportunity to meet up with these instructors again to review and make sure you haven't drifted from what he taught?

We also bring in people to help with our TKD. See I am a firm believer you can learn from various style and still keep the intregity ot your own.

I agree with this as well.

 

[Phoenix44]

I'm like seminars because I can learn about arts and techniques that are not part of my current training focus. Sometimes I pick up some good pointers or concepts that I can make use of, sometimes I just see interesting things that simply broaden my horizon, but that I will not attempt to incorporate into my own training.

If I like what I've learned, I go back home (or to my hotel room) and video myself and a partner doing the technique so I have a record of it and I can practice it later.

 

[Flying Crane]

I'll post some more of my thoughts about this. This topic came up in a thread over on Kenpotalk, and I'll post here some comments that I made over there. In short, I just question how well the material is learned in a short period like a seminar. My experience with just about everything I've learned in the martial arts is that it's a gradual process and takes repetition and repeated correction from an instructor to learn just about anything, from the first stance or block or kick or punch, to the most complex kata or application of a technique in a chaotic situation. I can't help thinking that the seminar approach leaves you without the opportunity for the followup that is necessary with the instructor, and to properly learn anything, you really ought to become a student of that instructor.

Here are my comments, sorry they are a bit long-winded:

I must be feeling a bit long-winded today, but I thought I'd build upon this a bit and perhaps illustrate a bit more concretely just why I'm not a big fan of seminars...

OK, so my kenpo background is Tracys. What is it that I might teach, in a seminar? How about an SD technique, say Striking Mace for example, one of our Purple Belt punch defenses. At this point, I need to ask myself, why would I teach this? What can I give, that another Tracys instructor can't already give his own students, with regard to this technique? For a non-Tracy person in a different kenpo lineage, why would they even be interested in learning this tech? Surely any other kenpo lineage has plenty of punch techs, so why would they be interested in this? I don't have an answer for that. How about a non-kenpo guy, like maybe a Tae Kwon Do guy? OK, in his case, maybe Striking Mace would be a good example to see how Kenpo approaches things, how we structure our curriculum and our approach to training, so he might get something out of it in the broad sense, but I don't expect he would go home with the ability to use the tech after the seminar.

So maybe an SD Tech like Striking Mace isn't a good choice.

How about a kata? Let's take one that we have in Tracys, but other kenpo lineages don't tend to have. How about Tam Tui? Again, for other Tracy People, why would they want to learn this from me, rather than from their own instructor? OK, maybe their particular school never learned this one and they want to bring it into their curriculum so they are more "complete" in relation to the Tracy system. Or, maybe I've become sort of famous for being an expert on Tam Tui, so they are hoping to get corrections on the kata, because they already know it and have that background to work with and they want to improve what they have. For these guys, I can understand the motivation behind taking this seminar.

But how about a non-Tracy kenpo guy, or a non-kenpo guy? It's brand spanking new to you but I could take an afternoon and work with you and teach you the form. But I can almost guarantee that unless you are a martial arts prodigy you will not remember it all by the next day. Even if you write it all down and consult your notes, by a week later it will be vague and you won't be able to translate your notes well enough to reconstruct what was crammed down your throat in one afternoon. It was far too much. You cannot learn something like this all in one session, with any hope of doing it justice both in execution, and in understanding. It needs to be a longer project than one afternoon, or even a long weekend, and that requires regular interaction with the teacher (in this case, me, since I taught the seminar). So now am I obligated to run a series of seminars so that people can revisit this and learn it properly? Why not just become a student at my school, because that is what it will really take...

How about this idea: what about some kind of over-arching principle that can be broadly applied in many aspects of kenpo? For a seminar topic, I like this kind of idea best.

Doctor Dave and I were discussing an issue not long ago in another thread, and that was the whipping power that is developed thru a full-body pivot. This is found in many Chinese arts, and is also prevalent in Tracy Kenpo. I assume it is also found in other lineages of kenpo, but since I am not familiar with them, I cannot point out examples. At any rate, in Tracys, we have certain techs that rely heavily on this method, but it is my belief that it often gets sort of lost in the system because it takes a concentrated effort to really develop the method to make these techs effective. If you never put in that effort and time, you will never really understand it. Sure, we all know how to pivot thru the waist to generate power in a strike, and while this is part of the method I am talking about, the real meat of this is more extreme than a simple waist-pivot with a reverse punch. It goes far beyond this...

Now I have an advantage here: I have spent the last decade studying Tibetan White Crane kung fu under a very capable sifu, and TWC relies HEAVILY on this method of whipping power. We have some very specific drills and techniques that are designed to develop this method, and we probably do it to a greater extent than any other system in existance. I believe that most kenpoists would judge our methods to be overly exaggerated, and you would be correct with the caveat that these are just training methods designed to develop the method, while true application is not nearly so exaggerated. But you need the exaggerated training in order to develop and understand the skill, before you can apply it in a less exaggerated and more realistic way. If you train big movement, you can always apply with small movement, but the opposite is not true.

So I see a lot of this same TWC whipping potential in a lot of the Tracy techs and forms. I could teach a seminar strictly on learning to develop this whipping power, which could then be applied through out the entire system. The problem is, this method really does take time to develop. I could show you a couple drills and techniques for it, and we could spend an afternoon practicing them. But I can bet you probably won't really start to develop any real ability with it for a year or two or three or more. And there are more drills and techniques to develop this than I can teach you in one afternoon, with any hope of you remembering them and continuing to practice them. And there is a lot of subtlty in the method, and I am POSITIVE most people would get it wrong for a long time, because they would try to muscle their way thru it and that is disastrous for the method. So again, this is a method that requires a long time to really learn it, and a lot of feedback from an instructor to make sure you are doing it right, and even then it takes a while to really be able to use it. But it is definitely worth the effort and the end results can supercharge your technique more than you realize.

So again, if I taught a seminar in this, and then you never had a chance to revisit the method with me for pointers and corrections and further development, you won't get anywhere with it.

So now we are back to ground zero again. Why try and teach this in a seminar? It cannot be adequately passed on in this way. If you want to learn it right, come on over and dedicate your time to being my student and I can start working with you on it.

So that's why I'm not a big fan of seminars. Hope this clears up my reasons.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Seminars are a big thing in the martial arts today. They serve to bring together people from within an organization, and can also be open to those outside the organization and even from vastly different arts.

How do you all feel about them? Do you like to attend them? Do you like to teach at them? What do you feel you learn at them, or what are you able to pass along if you are one of the teachers? What kind of topic do you feel is appropriate or inappropriate for a seminar setting? Do you feel you learn things that are a lasting benefit and a strong addition into your curriculum?

Personally, I'm not a big fan of them, but I'd like to see what people think, see what their take is on them and get a different perspective.

Thanks!

Seminars are ok I guess but I am not much of a fan of them either. The few organizations that I have come across that require their students to go to seminars have always left me wondering why, can’t they teach the art the claim to all by themselves or are they lacking?

I have been to a few seminars (in my youth) but to be honest I never got much out of many of them a couple were pretty good but they just are not my cup of tea anymore I guess.

But to answer your questions

How do you all feel about them? I am not a big fan of them

Do you like to attend them? Nope

Do you like to teach at them? Never have and I really do not want to

What do you feel you learn at them, or what are you able to pass along if you are one of the teachers? This is hard to answer since it has been years since I went to any but I can say I did learn a respect for Karate I did not have prior to my seminar with Fumeo Demura. And I learned quite a lot form the few YMAA seminars I went to as well, one thing I learned was DR Yang REALLY likes Qinna in push hands (ouch)

What kind of topic do you feel is appropriate or inappropriate for a seminar setting? I really can’t say since I really do not like them much I tend to feel not much is appropriate but that is likely just me.

Do you feel you learn things that are a lasting benefit and a strong addition into your curriculum? Some of the Qinna and Qigong from Yang I apply and some of the Qigong from Chen I apply as well but I do not think I would pay the price to go to any more of their seminars

 

[Rich Parsons]

Seminars are a big thing in the martial arts today. They serve to bring together people from within an organization, and can also be open to those outside the organization and even from vastly different arts.

I agree Seminars are good to bring people together. They can be fun and enjoyable.

How do you all feel about them?

I like them in general.

But as in all things some bad apples can ruin it for everyone.

Do you like to attend them?

I like to attend them. I get to see how other people move. I get to meet other people and work with them as well. Heck this is how some people meet me and decided to bring mein to teach a seminar for them.

I do not teach a side seminar while someone else is teaching. That in my opinion is rude behaviour.

Do you like to teach at them?

I really do like to teach at them. It gives people a chance to meet me and to learn and to try something new.

What do you feel you learn at them, or what are you able to pass along if you are one of the teachers?

I always took a few things away from each seminar. But I realize that many people are so over whelmed that they might forget or not be able to take it away.

As a teacher I try to make sure people either understand a concept or some basic movements. The good part of this is that people can take it away and use it, but they do not remember these real flashy and cool new techniques that are fun to work on and learn at seminars, but are harder for the average person to take away.

Some people can find my way boring and decide to only bring me in once or twice or every couple of years or so.

What kind of topic do you feel is appropriate or inappropriate for a seminar setting?

I find knife work to be inappropriate for minors. I prefer to not teach to minors the more offensive techniques in the knife work. I prefer a defensive method for this. I have asked parents of children/minors present that if they did not want their child to learn (* done privately so as not to embarass the minor *) I would work with the child/minor after my time slot or after the event to give them something else. Most of the parents do not mind their children learning but I also do not want the parent to feel trapped as they might not have understood the topic being taught. I wish to make sure they feel comfortable with the training for themselves and their child. But like I said I prefer not teach minors and in general the number of minors at the events I have been low in average.

Do you feel you learn things that are a lasting benefit and a strong addition into your curriculum?

Yes I do. But I would state that they really should have more time with qualified instructors and that time should be private or semi private so they get more contact time with the instructor.

Personally, I'm not a big fan of them, but I'd like to see what people think, see what their take is on them and get a different perspective.

Thanks!

Seminars can go bad real quick. If the host is bad or makes it bad for those attending. If there is misrepresentation of what is being taught this could be a bad thing. If you are expecting a specific person and get someone else this is a bad thing. If you have no breaks to re-hydrate or to rest this can be bad.

But, if people are given a chance to rest and drink water and absorb for a few minutes they seem to do better and also remember more. But this is from my experience.

Thanks

 

[Flying Crane]

I always took a few things away from each seminar. But I realize that many people are so over whelmed that they might forget or not be able to take it away.

...

As a teacher I try to make sure people either understand a concept or some basic movements. The good part of this is that people can take it away and use it, but they do not remember these real flashy and cool new techniques that are fun to work on and learn at seminars, but are harder for the average person to take away.

...

Yes I do. But I would state that they really should have more time with qualified instructors and that time should be private or semi private so they get more contact time with the instructor.

Thanks

Thanks Rich,

I think these points are really key issues. thanks for acknowledging them.

 

[terryl965]

After the seminar is over, do you feel you have learned this material well enough to keep practicing it as part of your regular curriculum, or does it sort of get lost in the aftermath? Do you have opportunity to meet up with these instructors again to review and make sure you haven't drifted from what he taught?



I agree with this as well.

FC after seeing what I like I find myself always learning and keep trying to understand all those techniques. Most of the time it is over years before I will try and incorporate it into my own material after I believe I fully understand it. I will travel to learn the stuff as well.

 

[stickarts]

I have devoted a tremendous amount of time attending seminars, helping others conduct seminars, promoting seminars, and conducting my own seminars. The seminars I have been involved with have seemed to help instruct a LOT of people, have developed a lot of friendships, have helped many people to become educated about new arts as well as learn more about their own arts, allowed people to network, and have been a lot of FUN!
I would estimate that I have attended nearly 200 seminars. I also like that it gave me the opportunity to work my material with thousands of students from many different arts and walks of life. This has been a huge advantage to me as a student and as an instructor.
I was always careful to pick seminars by taking a look at the person conducting it as well as the host to make sure they were reputable.
Seminars are not the main way you should learn an art. You need day to day training with a teacher for that. But they can be a great supplement to your training.
They aren't necessarily for everyone, but they worked out great for me.

 

[Shicomm]

Seminars can be nice indeed to meet new people and learn some things.

I would like to go to more seminars but often the price 'scares' me off ...
It's great to get some training with a high ranked teacher but most of the time such seminars are just out of my budget...
Pretty sad...

Instead i try to visit other dojo once in a while and try to learn something over there.
It's more budget friendly and i still got to meet new people and get some good training !