Long Pole

[CuongNhuka]

Speaking of names, years ago when we first began training in WT, we would get together between classes and train. Usually we went at it pretty hard (we did a lot of lat sao in the early days) but from time to time we would end up talking when we should have been training and someone coined the term "yak sao".

So, would insulting someone be Yak Dar?

 

[geezer]

So, would insulting someone be Yak Dar?

Nah. Yak Da is simultaneously insulting them as you punch 'em in the mouth! BTW, my training partners and I are pretty talkative too (big surprise, right). So our motto for chi-sau is, if you won't rock 'n roll, then talk 'n roll... but no standing around! One way we shut each other up is to start putting on the pressure. Then you've gotta shut up or you can catch a palm to the jaw and really bite your tongue. Now excuse me, ...my tongue still hurts.

 

[Domino]

lol ^^
Im unsure of the form, but recently had the opportunity to use pole, very difficult but something I plan to practice often. Luk dim boon kwun much easier than bart cham dao.

 

[Tensei85]

lol ^^
Im unsure of the form, but recently had the opportunity to use pole, very difficult but something I plan to practice often. Luk dim boon kwun much easier than bart cham dao.

I would have to agree with that however there are a lot of angles and concepts that are sometimes forsaken or not expressed properly. So there is a lot to the Luk Dim Poon Guan even though it appears simple but to perform it correctly is not always easy:mst:

You see a lot of these concepts expressed in Chi Guan (Kwan) as well.

 

[Domino]

I do agree, more to the 'quality than quantity' of things.
Unsure if this is a good example but short and simple motions.

 

[CuongNhuka]

I do agree, more to the 'quality than quantity' of things.
Unsure if this is a good example but short and simple motions.

Agreed. However, someone else mentioned a few ways to vary the Pole form. This is a great idea to do with any form, as it will give you a more indepth understanding of the material.

 

[Domino]

Agreed. However, someone else mentioned a few ways to vary the Pole form. This is a great idea to do with any form, as it will give you a more indepth understanding of the material.

Thanks,
I would like to see variation if you can find it please.

 

[CuongNhuka]

Mine is the same. Very short. But if that really bothers you, try repeating it four times, linking it together, alternating left and right hands forward, and changing direction each time. That way you can make it come out to exactly 108 moves... which is a classical "round" number in Chinese culture and plenty long enough. Anyway, if you like long sets, there's always the Bart Cham Dao form. But that's over my head. Maybe some day....

Thanks,
I would like to see variation if you can find it please.

Good?

 

[Domino]

Oh ok yep, thanks.

 

[Tensei85]

I agree,

I think you can vary it to tailor the To dai's needs however the core concepts and mechanics should not be changed. Atleast my take on it, it initiates such concepts as Chi Guan, Jung Sin, Jik Sin, Saat Guan etc...

Each of these are viable, but as far as Pole forms or Guan Faat I've seen multiple variations in fact I don't believe there's any two Sifu's that practice it identical.

 

[mook jong man]

Well Lok Dim Boon is supposed to mean six and a half point pole.
Meaning there are six and a half movements in the pole form.

All the applications are based on these moves , and all the useless showy stuff was thrown out in keeping with Wing Chun's emphasis on efficiency.
So I would be pretty suspicious if I saw someone swinging it around like a quarterstaff.

 

[Tensei85]

6 in a half point principles:

Tai, Dim, Kit, Lan, Wan, Got & Lau

I was always told that Lau (Flow) represents the half point concept as it was to be half of the focus (training) of the Pole.

 

[yak sao]

New training aid discovery.
I was out in the backyard this morning practicing with the long pole.
We have one of those plastic weighted stands that a patio table umbrella goes in sitting there on the patio. (my wife just recently bought a new one, and me being the dutiful husband that I am have't thrown the old one away yet)
Next to it leaning against the wall was one of my old wax wood staffs from my earlier kung fu days that my son had been messing around with. Lightbulb moment.
I stuck the staff down where the umbrella would normally go and now I have a long pole training aid.
I used it to practice striking and side to side in sort of a chi gwun fashion.

I'm very easily entertained.

 

[Tensei85]

Awesome!

Another training practice that works well is to hang Iron wrist training rings on either branches of a tree (if your outside) or hang from a banister of a ceiling (if inside) and practice the thrusting motions of Biu Guan and try and hit the center of the rings. Its best to have varying ring sizes so as to mix up the size of the targets. So start out with the largest ring & work your way to the smallest wrist ring.

I enjoy this training module.

 

[bully]

For the UK people, Pagoda are doing a clearance on a few poles which have bends in them.

http://www.pagodaimports.co.uk/p-45-authentic-85-wing-chun-long-pole.aspx

£39

Tempted but I think shipping across the channel might be expensive for a 8.5 foot pole.

 

[graychuan]

Interchanging the pole with a spear and doing the same form offers a nice flavor...

 

[Tensei85]

Yea, I agree some Schools of Wing Chun utilize the 13 Spearing Principles originally meant for the Spear as opposed to the Pole.

http://books.google.com/books?id=S7...Lb0asB&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2


And based on Master Benny Meng's research, the original Wing Chun Pole based on Southern Shaolin lore was actually a Spear for warfare at the time of mid 1600's around 1655 give or take a few. And it incorporated the Center line concept which is as we know today. He goes on to say that Wing Chun originally taught the components of weapons 1st as opposed to as we see today the general. SNT (SLT), CK, BJ, etc...

I'll see if I can dig up the article, its worth a read at least.

As with anything I can't say I agree 100% but I try to be subjective and open minded about Wing Chun history. And I feel everyone has something to contribute.

 

[BFL]

I like that excercise too. I also like the wrist excercises that Mook mentions. The problem is that between those and my Escrima training, I've overdone it and developed tendonitis in my left wrist. It's taking forever to get better. Also, being a bit stiff-jointed, the strength training aspects of the pole have not really helped my chi-sau. Last time my instructor came to town a couple of weeks back, he told me to lay off the pole stuff. Besides, as a hobbyist, and not a professional martial artist (I'm being brutally honest here), I don't spend enough time practicing what really matters--the basics. It seems like I'm always short of time or will-power. Anybody else feel that way?

Oh and BTW "Tensei" has a Japanese ring to it? Is that so? It's just that a lot of CMA people on this forum use Japonese sounding names. I always wondered about that. Now "Geezer" or Gee-Sa. there's a proper Chinese name, right?

Geezer wrote: "It seems like I'm always short of time or will-power. Anybody else feel that way?"
Amen to that one sir. Usually my past injuries come into play as well only making my will-power wain even further. My Kung Fu has sufferred for it and I hate to admit but due to those issues and having no one to stick with, my Chi Sao is horrible.

 

[graychuan]

Yea, I agree some Schools of Wing Chun utilize the 13 Spearing Principles originally meant for the Spear as opposed to the Pole.

http://books.google.com/books?id=S7...Lb0asB&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2


And based on Master Benny Meng's research, the original Wing Chun Pole based on Southern Shaolin lore was actually a Spear for warfare at the time of mid 1600's around 1655 give or take a few. And it incorporated the Center line concept which is as we know today. He goes on to say that Wing Chun originally taught the components of weapons 1st as opposed to as we see today the general. SNT (SLT), CK, BJ, etc...

I'll see if I can dig up the article, its worth a read at least.

As with anything I can't say I agree 100% but I try to be subjective and open minded about Wing Chun history. And I feel everyone has something to contribute.

Check this one out , Tensei...

Kali, Eskrima, Spear

 

[Tensei85]

Check this one out , Tensei...

Kali, Eskrima, Spear

Nice! I thoroughly enjoyed the vid, by the way enjoyed the music too! :ultracool

The only small recommendation I could make, is when using a Biu Guan or the spearing try a lower Say Ping Ma and just extend the shoulder out to allow the full reach of the spear. The Say Ping Ma will allow the base to generate your "Guan Jing" (But I'm not big on giving corrections, afterall were all learning) So take my advice if it helps, But everything looked great! I liked the kali demo as well, Very fluid.

Nice 2 person drills, very fluid and you were aware of your surroundings too. Never ran into the kid that was running back and forth lol.