OP
Limb Destruction
- Thread starter futsaowingchun
- Start date
Danny T
Senior Master
zuti car
Blue Belt
Well , Mr. Professor is know for putting people down in his passive aggressive way, he also constantly pointing out that there are only few people who know "real" wing chun and possess real skill (probably considering him self as one of thous few). Just don't pay to much attention to these kind of things (and people) and do you things the way you like it .
OP
futsaowingchun
Black Belt
- Thread Starter
- #44
zuti car
Blue Belt
Honoring wing chun with respect and humility sounds like a very strange concept to me , like some kind of religion or something very close to that .I would rather talk about honoring people . If someone constantly pointing out how other people do not know , or do not understand something ( in this case wing chun) ,well, I cannot respect that person. On the other hand , if someone took time and made a video to share some of his knowledge without any other intention , just simple presentation of his system and his point o view , even if I do not agree with what he has shown I will stay silent out of respect for his effort and good will . There is always a way to state an opinion without insulting anyone , especially if that opinion is stated by highly educated person .
Wow... Maybe we can get back to the original topic and drop the personal attacks and shots? Or maybe people need to collect some infraction points? If the shots keep up, I will be happy to provide the points.
In case I am being too subtle:
ATTENTION ALL USERS
Please return to the original topic. Please keep the conversation polite and respectful.
Jks9199
Administrator
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
In case I am being too subtle:
ATTENTION ALL USERS
Please return to the original topic. Please keep the conversation polite and respectful.
Jks9199
Administrator
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk
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Agree!
Long time ago, I had suggested that every forum members should put up a personal clip that he/she punches/kicks on his/her heavy bag. This way we will know who is who and what stage of his/her MA training is.
Sometime I just wonder what's the purpose to share any personal clips in the forum? When you put up a clip, you may receive 50% of people who agrees with you, you may also receive the other 50% of people who disagrees with you. Sometime people's disagreement may put you in defense mode and force you to write more posts to support your previous post.
Unless you are trying to sell your upcoming books, or upcoming DVDs, why should anybody want to share personal clips online? Is that truly worthwhile your effort?
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OP
futsaowingchun
Black Belt
- Thread Starter
- #49
I don't have any book or DVD on the horizon. For now my main purpose is to show value and keep interest in tradional Martial arts so it won't die out. Also my videos are sort of a martial art journey and I'm just documenting my thoughts as I travel the path.I've spent 32 years Training Wing Chun and the most of that time I never want to teach it or show it to anybody but now I feel it's time you can't take it to the grave so you should pass on what you know at least it'll be accessible if anybody's interested in it.
I agree that's a good reason to share personal clips online.
One 6 harmony praying mantis (LiuHe Tang Lang) master 张祥三 (Zhang Xiang San) didn't want to teach his 6 harmony praying mantis to anybody. One time he was sick, stayed in hospital, and almost dead. When he felt that he was dying, in his dream, his teacher came to him and blamed on him not be able to pass his learning to the next generation. When he left hospital, he tried to grab anybody and begged them to learn from him.
One time my friend came up a new DVD, but his students suggested him not to make it public. He finally kept that DVD unpublished. I asked him whether he will feel sorry to take that information to his grave. He said, "I'll be glad to take that information to my grave."
Sometime I just feel that MA is a strange thing. When you try to give away for free, people will not appreciate it. When you try to keep it in secret, people will try to learn from you.
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But what is the difference between what he showed, and the typical "chi sau tricks" people show when posting videos of chi sau? That's typically with a compliant partner as well. He did over-react and didn't need to resort to name-calling. But that wasn't a fair thing to say about his video either. Most demo's are with a compliant partner. That's what makes it a demo. He never advertised his clip as a sparring clip. I still like what he showed better than most of the "Lat Sau" demo's people post. ;-)
A few years back a study was performed where two bottles of wine were presented. One was very expensive and the other very cheap. Naturally everyone chose the expensive wine and exclaimed how fantastic it was as compared to the cheap wine . Later the price tags were switched, and again everyone chose the expensive wine (not knowing that it was actually the cheap stuff) and exclaimed how fantastic it was as compared to the cheap wine. Goes to show that people are drawn to the perception of quality based upon factors such as rarity, price, age and trend and not the actual quality.
OP
futsaowingchun
Black Belt
- Thread Starter
- #53
It's Psychology. What you can't have you want and what you can have you don't want.
One of my teachers when he started to teach he did not charge a lot of money for lessons because he wanted to be affordable to anyone who wanted to learn,but very few people wanted to learn from him. Then before he decided to close his doors increased his price then he doubled his students..
The day of secrets are over because what ever your looking for can be found in other arts, if you look hard enough. Everyone wants to feel so special because they are from this special lineage that goes back to such and such but what only matters is what you can do. If you can surpass your teacher in skill and knowlege I think that is something special.
To me, the "secret" is like a peace of thin window paper (during the ancient time, there were no glass and people used paper for window), after you poke a small hole on it, you can see through your window. Without that small hole, one may not be able to see what exactly exist outside of that window.
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If you teach a workshop that has to do with fighting, you may find out that you will have less students than the workshop next to you that teach a "fan form".
My apologies to Stonecrusher for going off topic here, but I wanted to address John's post.
This is one of the major problems within "Martial Arts" as a whole. There is no distinction or classification between what is considered to be "Traditional" and "Modern" or "Functional" and "Aesthetic" let alone "Sport", "Holistic" or "Military". The populace in general is under the assumption that it is ALL simply "Martial Arts" because of the way it is presented and promoted. They can not separate any of it because of this perception and generalization. This "Lumping Together" may be well and good for those that will exploit this misconception and profit from it, but IMO it devalues the integrity of those that strive to maintain and uphold the traditions and practices of valid "Martial" arts based upon military practices, whether they be local militia, state or government military methods.
I personally do not consider methods like XMA, Contemporary Wushu or the like, as real "Martial Arts". In all honesty I do not even care for the term "Martial Arts", as for me, it conveys a meaning of personal expression akin to interpretive dance, just like XMA and Wushu. Unfortunately we really don't have another generic title that will be understood and accepted by the general populace.
[QUOTE="dlcox, post: 1698658, member: 32540.....I do not even care for the term "Martial Arts", as for me, it conveys a meaning of personal expression akin to interpretive dance, just like XMA and Wushu. Unfortunately we really don't have another generic title that will be understood and accepted by the general populace.[/QUOTE]
Wholeheartedly agree.
I wrote this on my WT facebook page some time ago on this very topic:
I hesitate to use the term martial artist. In fact, I’ve never really liked that term. I’ve seen too many people put the emphasis on the artist part, rather than the martial part.
By being an artist, you are not held to concrete standards, because art is abstract and as we’ve all heard, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. So to call yourself a martial artist, you are in some ways, giving yourself license to be ineffective.
That’s why I prefer the term fighter. It cuts right to the heart of what it means to study a martial art. Being a fighter is more than just putting on gloves and proceeding to beat the hell out of each other. Being a fighter is an attitude.
Being a fighter is developing mental and physical toughness. It is to keep going, even though everyone else around you has quit. It is pushing past your limits, throwing that extra couple of punches or kicks, going just one more round on the bag, running that extra 50 yards instead of taking the easy way out and just stopping to catch your breath.
Being a fighter is perfecting your skills. It is never settling for good enough, because you know it can always be done better.
It isn’t being a troglodyte or being some sort of gung ho maniac who wants to smash their opponent.. It is treating yourself and others with respect. Being a fighter is carrying yourself with a little extra dignity.
That’s what I mean by fighter. Not everyone will have the skills of an Emin Boztepe, or a Joe Lewis. But we can learn from their work ethic. How did they get where they are? Training, and lots of it. Training while others were sitting. Training while others decided to take the night off.
We can’t always do the thing we’d like to do. Class time is often interrupted by family and work. There’s nothing wrong with that. In fact, family and responsibility should always come first.
But honestly evaluate yourself. Whether you can make it to class or not, there are times throughout the day/week we can all train more than we do. We may just have the time and energy for a couple of minutes on the heavy bag, or a quick 50 pushups. But there's time.
We can all have the attitude of a fighter.
Wholeheartedly agree.
I wrote this on my WT facebook page some time ago on this very topic:
I hesitate to use the term martial artist. In fact, I’ve never really liked that term. I’ve seen too many people put the emphasis on the artist part, rather than the martial part.
By being an artist, you are not held to concrete standards, because art is abstract and as we’ve all heard, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. So to call yourself a martial artist, you are in some ways, giving yourself license to be ineffective.
That’s why I prefer the term fighter. It cuts right to the heart of what it means to study a martial art. Being a fighter is more than just putting on gloves and proceeding to beat the hell out of each other. Being a fighter is an attitude.
Being a fighter is developing mental and physical toughness. It is to keep going, even though everyone else around you has quit. It is pushing past your limits, throwing that extra couple of punches or kicks, going just one more round on the bag, running that extra 50 yards instead of taking the easy way out and just stopping to catch your breath.
Being a fighter is perfecting your skills. It is never settling for good enough, because you know it can always be done better.
It isn’t being a troglodyte or being some sort of gung ho maniac who wants to smash their opponent.. It is treating yourself and others with respect. Being a fighter is carrying yourself with a little extra dignity.
That’s what I mean by fighter. Not everyone will have the skills of an Emin Boztepe, or a Joe Lewis. But we can learn from their work ethic. How did they get where they are? Training, and lots of it. Training while others were sitting. Training while others decided to take the night off.
We can’t always do the thing we’d like to do. Class time is often interrupted by family and work. There’s nothing wrong with that. In fact, family and responsibility should always come first.
But honestly evaluate yourself. Whether you can make it to class or not, there are times throughout the day/week we can all train more than we do. We may just have the time and energy for a couple of minutes on the heavy bag, or a quick 50 pushups. But there's time.
We can all have the attitude of a fighter.
mograph
Master of Arts
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While I agree with the value of seeing one's self as a fighter, I wouldn't be so hard on the term "artist" or conflate it with the idea of a fine artist: one who paints, sculpts and so on. Strictly speaking, an artist does things, and makes things: "artisan," "artifice" are derived from "art." I was given a new appreciation of the word when someone pointed out that in Classical education, the liberal arts, based on "thinking" instead of professional practice (e.g. medicine/architecture) were grammar, logic and rhetoric, then arithmetic, geometry, music and astronomy. In this view, all stuff that we do or make, presumably in opposition to stuff that God did or make, would come under the heading of the "arts."
As for concrete standards for a practice, they're artificial, made by us. In effect, by creating standards, we would be making something, so we would be artists.
So yes, people who call themselves "martial artists" and have no discipline, focus, investigation or practice are not good martial artists. I've seen enough of those. But to me, the practitioners who investigate, craft, study, and practice a martial discipline diligently (as you do) are as worthy of the term "artist" as one who studied classical rhetoric or mathematics with the same discipline and focus.
I think that the bad martial artists are the ones who are misusing the term "artist," to give themselves license to be ineffective because they don't understand what an artist really is. I wouldn't accept their inaccurate framing of the term.
That's my opinion, of course.
As for concrete standards for a practice, they're artificial, made by us. In effect, by creating standards, we would be making something, so we would be artists.
So yes, people who call themselves "martial artists" and have no discipline, focus, investigation or practice are not good martial artists. I've seen enough of those. But to me, the practitioners who investigate, craft, study, and practice a martial discipline diligently (as you do) are as worthy of the term "artist" as one who studied classical rhetoric or mathematics with the same discipline and focus.
I think that the bad martial artists are the ones who are misusing the term "artist," to give themselves license to be ineffective because they don't understand what an artist really is. I wouldn't accept their inaccurate framing of the term.
That's my opinion, of course.
