What's the future of Wing Chun?

[geezer]

Lately traffic here on the WC forum seems to be really slowing down. Some of the other WC forums I used to frequent are virtually dead. Maybe there's a die-hard or two still posting, but there are no replies. --Well, so much for forums. Perhaps that's just a matter of people going to other types of social networking to share their interests.

On the other hand, I wonder if interest in WC, and TMA in general (especially for adults) is waning. I really can't judge by my own classes, since it's always been a small "under the radar" operation, but I do maintain a website and rent space at a gym with a good location, and yet haven't had anyone new walk in door ...or even call in a while. Heck, even if I were a crappy teacher, you'd expect more people walking in to check us out, even if they walked right back out! But like the forums, there's just no traffic.

Now my son is enrolled in a good TKD school run by a friend of mine. He has also offered Tai Chi, WC, and other adult programs. But, they all have dwindled to nothing. He still does a a good business teaching TKD to children and youth. Yet after decades of building his school, he only retains a few adults.

I suppose the really well known masters may be maintaining a solid following, but are their organizations actually growing? ...or just struggling to maintain students? What have you seen? Am I wrong, or is WC gradually dying out? And if so, why?

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

there's just no traffic.

May be not enough "deep level" discussion". I still remember the subject "wrong Ben - use right Ben Shou to block right punch" was very hot and popular discussion. Of course the WC "power generation" method can be interested but it often end with argument instead. Also my "rhino guard" strategy evolved from the WC "center line theory" had generated some good discussion as well. But that's "WC principle used in general MA discussion" that none WC guys can participate too.

is WC gradually dying out? And if so, why?

IMO, WC = fist meets face. Is it too violent?

 

[Danny T]

Not sure about other schools or organizations, the Francis Fong Wing Chun organization and the FF Instructor Association is growing. Now only here in the U.S. but in Canada, and Europe also.
I have a group of approx. 60 within my school and have 3 small affiliate groups 12-15 each in other towns associated with me. We respect all other WC organizations and don't allow any knocking of the others in any manner. We also are open to other methods of training and we train vs a lot of other methods. Being of the mind that WC should be and is an adaptable method each practitioner will be different and once one has been trained each will be different in how they utilize and express their skills. From what I've experienced it is the strict adherence to a training method as application and a lack understanding of how to freely apply what one has learned in numerous situations and environments. I find when training with many from other organizations they are stuck in attempting to apply a move or position from the forms or from a drill in a fight situation without understanding the different dynamics. So people say WC people can't fight, WC sucks and it is true. Many WC people can't apply what they have.

 

[Transk53]

May be not enough "deep level" discussion". I still remember the subject "wrong Ben - use right Ben Shou to block right punch" was very hot and popular discussion. Of course the WC "power generation" method can be interested but it often end with argument instead. Also my "rhino guard" strategy evolved from the WC "center line theory" had generated some good discussion as well. But that's "WC principle used in general MA discussion" that none WC guys can participate too.


IMO, WC = fist meets face. Is it too violent?

I would think that is probably the perception. Popularization and all that.

 

[yak sao]

many from other organizations they are stuck in attempting to apply a move or position from the forms or from a drill in a fight situation without understanding the different dynamics. So people say WC people can't fight, WC sucks and it is true. Many WC people can't apply what they have.

I see that so much...people wanting to do a one for one translation of the forms into fighting...they just don't get it.

As for what is the future of WC? back when I started training CMA (1981) kids were the exception. Class was made up almost entirely of adults. Anymore, at least in this area, it seems to be the domain of kids, with the adults being the exception.
Is it because of MMA? Is it because there has been so much bad MA taught out there that it's become a laughing stock?
One of my students has a brother who was jumped at a gas station and beat up. My student told him that he should study wing chun with him. His brother laughed at him and told him that "nobody does karate anymore"

 

[mograph]

I see a lack of patience for learning any skill that does not offer some kind of return right away. I see this in both adults and teens. In a world where you can get anything quickly (on the internet, or in a purpose-designed app), why should anyone wait to to feel any gratification? In terms of martial arts, if some guy messes with me, why can't I run around the corner, get something, come back and knock the guy out? That's the time frame I'm talking about!

Of course, I don't feel that way; I'm a strong advocate of incremental growth and delayed gratification, and it took time to get there. And I love to build model kits ... but that's when I have the time. But I also do scientific research on the web and can't imagine the days when we had to go to the library and pore through bound journals.

Anyway ... I lament the loss of patience, care and incremental gains as the normal way of acquiring skill or gratification, and I see WC and martial arts in general suffering as a result.

 

[K-man]

Lately traffic here on the WC forum seems to be really slowing down. Some of the other WC forums I used to frequent are virtually dead. Maybe there's a die-hard or two still posting, but there are no replies. --Well, so much for forums. Perhaps that's just a matter of people going to other types of social networking to share their interests.

Not sure about other forums but here it seems there are fewer people being bothered to post in the TMA areas and I can understand why.

On the other hand, I wonder if interest in WC, and TMA in general (especially for adults) is waning. I really can't judge by my own classes, since it's always been a small "under the radar" operation, but I do maintain a website and rent space at a gym with a good location, and yet haven't had anyone new walk in door ...or even call in a while. Heck, even if I were a crappy teacher, you'd expect more people walking in to check us out, even if they walked right back out! But like the forums, there's just no traffic.

I don't think it's just WC. I haven't had a karate enquiry in a month yet I get several Krav enquires each week.

Then, I don't take children. Several of the guys I know who specialise in kids have between 300 and 500 on their books and are making huge money, but what sort of training do you get with those numbers?

 

[Drose427]

I always hear about how "TMA's are on the decline" but i havent seen it at all in my area of Ohio or WV.

All the TMAs in my area get steady amounts of new students, both children and adults. Most quit after a few months but boxing/MMA gyms see the same thing.

People arent rushing to MMA gyms as much as people generalize or propaganda tells us, most "MMA Meatheads" will never step foot in a gym in their life, more will quit after only a momth or two.

On the same coin, people arent really shunning TMA's as much as people say.

MMAs been huge for many years now and it hasnt affected many TMAs schools In the slightest

 

[mograph]

Now, to be fair, people do want community. If they feel an affinity to the class, the school, it's more likely they'll come back. We're social animals.

... but they have to come in the door first.

 

[Vajramusti]

Lately traffic here on the WC forum seems to be really slowing down. Some of the other WC forums I used to frequent are virtually dead. Maybe there's a die-hard or two still posting, but there are no replies. --Well, so much for forums. Perhaps that's just a matter of people going to other types of social networking to share their interests.

On the other hand, I wonder if interest in WC, and TMA in general (especially for adults) is waning. I really can't judge by my own classes, since it's always been a small "under the radar" operation, but I do maintain a website and rent space at a gym with a good location, and yet haven't had anyone new walk in door ...or even call in a while. Heck, even if I were a crappy teacher, you'd expect more people walking in to check us out, even if they walked right back out! But like the forums, there's just no traffic.

Now my son is enrolled in a good TKD school run by a friend of mine. He has also offered Tai Chi, WC, and other adult programs. But, they all have dwindled to nothing. He still does a a good business teaching TKD to children and youth. Yet after decades of building his school, he only retains a few adults.

I suppose the really well known masters may be maintaining a solid following, but are their organizations actually growing? ...or just struggling to maintain students? What have you seen? Am I wrong, or is WC gradually dying out? And if so, why?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wing chun traffic has slowed down. But that is good IMO. There is much mismash and junk labelled as wing chun. God wing chunas long as there are some good teachers will remain because wing chun properly taught is the real mcoy of kung fu. My kung fu siblings are not on chat lists for the most part. They keep on learning and developing their skills..Master Fong's classes are doing well. His best students are doing well.
He has not created a chain store system.One goes to Tucson to learn. Some of sigung's other proteges like Lui Ming Fai in HK are doing well.
WSL's best students and TST's best students are doing well. I would not judge wing chun by the waxing or waning of discussion on chat lists..

 

[futsaowingchun]

I think with Ip Man 3 coming out we will see a quick serge of interest.

 

[zuti car]

Developing necessary skills in TCMA require significant amount of time , not many people are ready to spend so much time in learning . Traditional values are changed and replaced with new values of the "modern" society where everything must be instantly ready for usage and must give results immediately . It is obvious growing popularity of so called "military" systems like Krav Maga , Kapap ect , they offer "instant" results , there is nothing you should think about , nothing to understand , they are attractive,often offer fire arms training and "special forces training ", have answers to all problems and questions. I see many TCMA people also offer fire arms training and some other ******** , because market demands it . I don't see bright future for TCMA , at last not in the form they are practiced today

 

[Vajramusti]

Developing necessary skills in TCMA require significant amount of time , not many people are ready to spend so much time in learning . Traditional values are changed and replaced with new values of the "modern" society where everything must be instantly ready for usage and must give results immediately . It is obvious growing popularity of so called "military" systems like Krav Maga , Kapap ect , they offer "instant" results , there is nothing you should think about , nothing to understand , they are attractive,often offer fire arms training and "special forces training ", have answers to all problems and questions. I see many TCMA people also offer fire arms training and some other ******** , because market demands it . I don't see bright future for TCMA , at last not in the form they are practiced today

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Much is true in what you say. However, wiing chun was never a mass activity in the past. Ip Man's success gave the art a wider base.

 

[geezer]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
... However, wing chun was never a mass activity in the past. Ip Man's success gave the art a wider base.

True that. Still, I'd like to see good WC spread and gain respect. After devoting a good portion of my life to this now, I'd like to see it continue on in the future. Someday, in my dotage, I don't want to hear my grandkids say, " Yeah, Grampa wasted his life doing that karate stuff that nobody does anymore".

Nope. I want them to say, "Hey did you know that in his day Grampa was good at Wing Chun!"

 

[geezer]

May be not enough "deep level" discussion". ..."WC principle used in general MA discussion" that non-WC guys can participate too.

IMO, WC = fist meets face. Is it too violent?

Naw, that's the best thing about WC!

One of the things that's great about this forum is just that. Most of us welcome input and questions from outside perspectives. For example John, your shuai chiao background adds a lot to the discussions.

 

[PiedmontChun]

My local WT school is mostly adults , though of all age ranges. They are trying to build a seperate kid's program but for whatever reason it hasn't taken off yet. It seems to bring in a new adult student for every student who leaves due to job relocation / injury / etc, so neither growth nor decline. A lot of the new students are young though, still in college or recently independant, not married or kids yet, looking for an outlet or challenging fun thing. I see that as promising that they chose WT over Krav or whatever relatively mainstream thing there is 'down the street' for adults to choose from.
Many adults still think its peculiar to study an MA, those who know I do some kind of MA likely question it less due to the UFC popularity, if for no other reason. Outside my WT school, the only friends or people in my circle that do MA are an amateur MMA guy and a Krav guy.

 

[Vajramusti]

True that. Still, I'd like to see good WC spread and gain respect. After devoting a good portion of my life to this now, I'd like to see it continue on in the future. Someday, in my dotage, I don't want to hear my grandkids say, " Yeah, Grampa wasted his life doing that karate stuff that nobody does anymore".

Nope. I want them to say, "Hey did you know that in his day Grampa was good at Wing Chun!"

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oldest grandson says that now, He has begun a once a week lesson with me. I dont know but hope that he will stick with it.

 

[Eric_H]

Lately traffic here on the WC forum seems to be really slowing down. Some of the other WC forums I used to frequent are virtually dead. Maybe there's a die-hard or two still posting, but there are no replies. --Well, so much for forums. Perhaps that's just a matter of people going to other types of social networking to share their interests.

For my own 2c, it's a matter of ROI. I don't get much of anything out of any of the online discussions I've had, nor do I care to participate much after I learned how often people use multiple fake accounts to push their own agendas. I find the practice distasteful.

is WC gradually dying out? And if so, why?

I'd say yes, because it doesn't really offer much outside of personal satisfaction. There's no career in it, no outlet for competition, no end game beyond maybe being a sifu if you wanted to.

It's an art you can love, but it certainly ain't gonna love you back.

 

[Shai Hulud]

will Wing Chun - I will Wing Chun tomorrow.
will be Wing Chunning - Want to tag along? My telly's on the blip so I guess we will be Wing Chunning all afternoon in preparation for that sash test coming up.

 

[geezer]

and where I practice

"....is WC gradually dying out? And if so, why?"

I'd say yes, because it doesn't really offer much outside of personal satisfaction. There's no career in it, no outlet for competition, no end game beyond maybe being a sifu if you wanted to.

Another thing. It's not particularly cool. It's not a sport or pastime that adults can talk about with a lot of people outside the MA community. In my experience, PiedmontChun is right. Many adults find such activities peculiar especially compared with more conventional pastimes like tennis, golf and skiing, or activities that are currently in vogue such as the resurgance of interest in yoga.

That very word, "peculiar", brings back a memory of an incident at college when a group of students walked in to an empty common room in my dorm where I was practicing my kenpo katas. A cocky young woman who I barely knew from having seen around campus loudly exclaimed, "My, you are peculiar!". Then she and her entourage went skipping off singing "Follow the Yellow Brick Road". The irony had me in stitches at the time. Nevertheless, as people age, I find such narrow-minded views increasingly common.

So, I'm a bit more discrete about discussing my interest in WC these days ...and about where I practice. Unfortunately that doesn't do much to "spread the faith".