Legs.

[Ironbear24]

It's weird that my legs actually got larger muscles from constantly doing kata 3 days a week for about 20 minutes, compared to sqauts at the gym and leg presses where the weight was set at 300 and over.

It makes think if there are other methods of building muscle mass in martial arts through more traditional methods. How did martial artists back in the fuedal times develop strength at the time? I mean there wasn't exactly gold's gym or bench presses around so I am thinking how did they do it?

 

[drop bear]

When do you think heavy stuff was invented?

 

[KangTsai]

It's weird that my legs actually got larger muscles from constantly doing kata 3 days a week for about 20 minutes, compared to sqauts at the gym and leg presses where the weight was set at 300 and over.

It makes think if there are other methods of building muscle mass in martial arts through more traditional methods. How did martial artists back in the fuedal times develop strength at the time? I mean there wasn't exactly gold's gym or bench presses around so I am thinking how did they do it?

How big are you talking, over how long? Hypertrophy involves small tears in the muscle, so if the kata you were doing were to build muscle, you would have to do them until you can't move your legs after you're done. Also on squats, that depends how many reps and sets you're doing. If you're going the strength way of max-weight low-volume, you shouldn't expect much muscle growth, rather strength growth.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Your legs are bigger because your muscles are engaged for a longer period when doing kata. Squats uses your muscles in short bursts from bent legs to straight. In kata your knees stay bent so you are working that muscle longer.

As for weights in ancient times. They had them but they didn't train like modern bodybuilders. Their muscles had to be functional and serve a purpose beyond getting big and puffed with muscles. You will get similar results from some of the traditional martial arts strength building exercises.

 

[Paul_D]

How did martial artists back in the fuedal times develop strength at the time?

My guess wold be they didn't, if you get your body weight into the technique you don't then have to rely on brute strength.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Ancient weight lifting
An Early History of Weightlifting

 

[frank raud]

300 lb squat or 300 lb leg press?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

It's weird that my legs actually got larger muscles from constantly doing kata 3 days a week for about 20 minutes, compared to sqauts at the gym and leg presses where the weight was set at 300 and over.

It makes think if there are other methods of building muscle mass in martial arts through more traditional methods. How did martial artists back in the fuedal times develop strength at the time? I mean there wasn't exactly gold's gym or bench presses around so I am thinking how did they do it?

As I recall, leg muscles are among those that respond well to repetitions rather than just weight. I don't know if that's still the prevailing wisdom, but it was when I started training seriously in the late 80's. That explains why nearly all soccer players have powerful legs, though most (when I was playing) didn't do a lot of weight-based leg exercises. We ran, we did suicide sprints, we kicked, etc. We did a lot of those, over and over, and the legs developed big muscles (which I still have well into my 40's).

 

[JP3]

You stand in horse stance for 20 minutes 3x a week and watch the legs just develop. Time under Tension is The Thing, I've a kinesthiology (spelling?) masters-degree trainer telling me recently. It's the method the strength coaches ascribe to in the NFL and those guys are S.T.R.O.N.G.

Body-weight exercises of all types are more effective than people think. Look at gymnasts.

 

[Ironbear24]

300 lb squat or 300 lb leg press?

My leg press was getting close to 500. My squat was around an even 300.

 

[Ironbear24]

How big are you talking, over how long? Hypertrophy involves small tears in the muscle, so if the kata you were doing were to build muscle, you would have to do them until you can't move your legs after you're done. Also on squats, that depends how many reps and sets you're doing. If you're going the strength way of max-weight low-volume, you shouldn't expect much muscle growth, rather strength growth.

That's the thing though. The low volume high weight built muscle mass everywhere else besides the legs. As far as the size of the legs go, idk the measurements exactly but they are noticably larger than they were a few months ago.

 

[Danny T]

There is evidence of people doing weighted training for centuries in all cultures.

 

[JowGaWolf]

As I recall, leg muscles are among those that respond well to repetitions rather than just weight. I don't know if that's still the prevailing wisdom, but it was when I started training seriously in the late 80's. That explains why nearly all soccer players have powerful legs, though most (when I was playing) didn't do a lot of weight-based leg exercises. We ran, we did suicide sprints, we kicked, etc. We did a lot of those, over and over, and the legs developed big muscles (which I still have well into my 40's).

Soccer players engage their leg muscles more often and for longer periods of time compared to someone who does 30 squats and then stops. A soccer player would still be using their legs long after someone has finished doing 30 squats (3 sets of 10) or what ever the number is.

 

[kuniggety]

That's the thing though. The low volume high weight built muscle mass everywhere else besides the legs. As far as the size of the legs go, idk the measurements exactly but they are noticably larger than they were a few months ago.

High weight with low volume is best for strength but not muscle volume hence why you see body builders usually sticking with a relatively low weight (compared to those training for strength) and doing high volume reps which maximizes blood flow into those muscles. Look at the elite cross fitters... most are not large but they're moving massive amounts of weight. The training is different. I have to say... it looks like you've had some imbalance in your training. I know elsewhere you've mentioned a bench press of 300. Your back squat should be closer to 350 with a 400 deadlift if you're "spreading the love" in your training.

 

[JowGaWolf]

High weight with low volume is best for strength but not muscle volume hence why you see body builders usually sticking with a relatively low weight (compared to those training for strength) and doing high volume reps which maximizes blood flow into those muscles. Look at the elite cross fitters... most are not large but they're moving massive amounts of weight. The training is different. I have to say... it looks like you've had some imbalance in your training. I know elsewhere you've mentioned a bench press of 300. Your back squat should be closer to 350 with a 400 deadlift if you're "spreading the love" in your training.

This is the risk of weight lifting. Many people lift to give their body a certain appearance and that appearance may not actually be balanced in term of the bodies muscles working together.

 

[JP3]

Another neat aspect of squats is, as ironBear notes above, a generalized hypertrophy effect. Lots of the big bodybuilders I've talked to capitalize on this effect, which has a sort of cascading biochemical effect (the science is past my pay grade), but it involves the enzymes released during the microtearing while doing squats, the fact that something like 80% of the body's voluntary muscle mass is activated during the squat rep to one extent or the other, hormone releases, insulin dump and glycogen recovery, etc. Thing is, this stuff happens in every workout, but with squats it's the whole body going through it, not just the localized region, e.g. shoulders, or chest and triceps, or any of the other bodypart splits used in the gym while lifting. It's neat stuff to listen to and useable. I had exactly the same effect as Ironbear witht he squats causing a generalized buffness showing up, while my legs, specifically quads were staying about the same. Getting ripped up, but staying the same size. This was back in the days when I was squatting 405 at the top of the pyramid. I tweaked my knee playing basketball when I was 30 though, and now if I go over 315 that knee start to twinge in a quite ominous manner, so I stay under the three plates per side level now.

Never could bench press my way out from under [pick your euphemism], though. Dead lifts, no problem. Leg press a house. But bench, nope. Think a body designed to pick up and toss hay bales, that's me.

Man, that slid more than slightly off topic, didn't it...

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Another neat aspect of squats is, as ironBear notes above, a generalized hypertrophy effect. Lots of the big bodybuilders I've talked to capitalize on this effect, which has a sort of cascading biochemical effect (the science is past my pay grade), but it involves the enzymes released during the microtearing while doing squats, the fact that something like 80% of the body's voluntary muscle mass is activated during the squat rep to one extent or the other, hormone releases, insulin dump and glycogen recovery, etc. Thing is, this stuff happens in every workout, but with squats it's the whole body going through it, not just the localized region, e.g. shoulders, or chest and triceps, or any of the other bodypart splits used in the gym while lifting. It's neat stuff to listen to and useable. I had exactly the same effect as Ironbear witht he squats causing a generalized buffness showing up, while my legs, specifically quads were staying about the same. Getting ripped up, but staying the same size. This was back in the days when I was squatting 405 at the top of the pyramid. I tweaked my knee playing basketball when I was 30 though, and now if I go over 315 that knee start to twinge in a quite ominous manner, so I stay under the three plates per side level now.

Never could bench press my way out from under [pick your euphemism], though. Dead lifts, no problem. Leg press a house. But bench, nope. Think a body designed to pick up and toss hay bales, that's me.

Man, that slid more than slightly off topic, didn't it...

My knees hate squats and presses at any weight now, but before they became so finicky, I was like you describe. My bench was never impressive, but my legs were stronger than guys much more buff than me. When I was 18, my one real joy in the weight room was to do legs right after some big guy. They'd see this kinda scrawny teen step up (before they had a chance to remove their weight) and maybe even add some to the stack. Squats weren't my strongest point (probably a core weakness at the time), but with any other leg stuff, I liked showing off. I was like that back then. Funny how I'm less like that now that I can't do that...

 

[Ironbear24]

High weight with low volume is best for strength but not muscle volume hence why you see body builders usually sticking with a relatively low weight (compared to those training for strength) and doing high volume reps which maximizes blood flow into those muscles. Look at the elite cross fitters... most are not large but they're moving massive amounts of weight. The training is different. I have to say... it looks like you've had some imbalance in your training. I know elsewhere you've mentioned a bench press of 300. Your back squat should be closer to 350 with a 400 deadlift if you're "spreading the love" in your training.

That's because chest day is everyday and chest day is best day.

 

[Midnight-shadow]

What you have to remember is that in "ancient" times, there were no cars or machines to do the work for you, so most people had to do everything themselves. If you were a woman your average day would be spent washing clothes by hand, carrying buckets of water from a well and cooking with nothing but a knife to help you. If you were a man chances are you would be out cutting logs or ploughing the fields, again by hand. And of course the poorest people had to walk everywhere as they couldn't afford to buy a horse or cart, and if they did have either of those, they would be used to carry food stuffs to the markets while the people walked alongside. Just these acts alone will make you as strong as most top athletes today, and on top of that a lot of them trained Martial Arts at the same time.

Traditional strength training in China mainly consisted of punching trees and using sandbags. We use sandbags a lot in our training to build arm and grip strength. Take a 5lb sand bag about 10in by 5in, and hold it out with one arm. The arm should be straight and at shoulder height. From there, let go of the bag with one hand and grab it with the other. Try and avoid letting the bag drop down too much or throwing it up in the air before you catch it. Do 50 of those each day for a couple of years and you'll have bulging arms and an iron grip.

 

[JR 137]

Edited because my original post was confusing after I read it...

I read a study in college that found people who did squats every day were leaner in body composition than people who didn't.

They took two groups, and both did the same routine. The change was one group did light weight squats as part of their warmup on non-legs days, and the second group did a different exercise. Both groups did squats with heavy weight on legs days.

At the end of the study, the group that did squats every day had lower body fat and higher muscle mass than the other group. And it wasn't just bigger legs that made the difference; the differences were throughout the body.

They theorized that the people who did squats every day released more muscle building and fat burning hormones. They said they'd follow up testing that theory, but I don't know what became of it.

Just an FYI. I can't remember who published the article, as I read so many of them as an undergrad, but it had to be a scientific journal otherwise it wouldn't have been presented to the class (a classmate presented it in exercise physiology, I believe).