strength excercises you use

[Adept]

And however you argue it, bodybuilders will never have the overall strength of gymnasts and will always be limited in how they can apply their strength.

Not at all. A gymnast who suppliments his bodyweight exercises with freeweights has greater potential for muscle strength (and thus overall body strength) than one who does not.

Will Mr Olypmia be able to do fifteen pull-ups? No.

Will the Olympic gold medallist Gymnast be able to lift the rear end of a family sedan? No.

However, neither skills are really "functional".

 

[dsp921]

I think the bodybuilder comparison is a little unfair. The bodybuilders that are being mentioned, with the big benchs and lifting cars, winning Mr. Olympia, etc. are, umm, let's just say "chemically enhanced". A more reasonable comparison would be a natural bodybuilder, and they look more like a gymnast than they do Mr. Olympia. Yes, weight training will produce more muscle mass and greater strength, but the real question is how does the strength relate to MA? Is all that strength necessary? I spend more than my fair share of time in the gym, but I don't do it to help my martial arts. If you look at most of the great martial artists they don't carry all the much muscle mass.

 

[Floating Egg]

I'm going to compromise a little bit here, but not too much!

Functional strength is strength that you can use, and bodyweight exercises are ideal in terms of the kind of obstacles that most people are likely to encounter. The other advantage to bodyweight exercises is that they can be done anywhere without expensive equipment.

If you want to use free weights to build the kind of strength needed to lift a sedan, model yourself after a power lifter, not a bodybuilder. Bodybuilders are primarily concerned with aesthetic, not strength. You'll want to concentrate on squats, cleans, and deadlifts because they still work multiple muscle groups.

 

[searcher]

I am not doubting the usefulness of bodyweight exercises, but to truly get overall muscle growth and strength you have to lift weights. As and instructor and trainer if the use of bodyweight were good enough to gain raw animal power I would have everyone doing them and throw out all of the equipment in the gym. If the comparison of bodybuilders is outside the scope of what we are looking at then I will bring up fitness competitors or any number of NHB fighters that train with weights. I actually have not seen to many gymnasts that don't supplement their training with weight training. Boxers also have went to using weight training to get the edge needed to win fights. Wrestlers are the same way. The ideology behind the use of bodyweight only exercises is slightly out-dated, very 70's-ish.

To gain a good overall build and uasble strength you need to have a complete workout and it must have: weight training, bodyweight exercises, plyometrics, and the use of heavy bag. To leave out any one of these areas will lead to mediocre performance from your body.

The Gambetta method is a great guide on how to set up a workout, but using only bodyweight exercises for the workout is a great injustice to it's principles. Train your body in that manour, but you need to work with weights.

I used to be of the same mentality as you Floating Egg, but then I got this crazy idea of trying weight training to help my MA's. Having lifted for football and track gave me an idea of what I needed to do. It is all history from there.

 

[Floating Egg]

I am not doubting the usefulness of bodyweight exercises, but to truly get overall muscle growth and strength you have to lift weights. As and instructor and trainer if the use of bodyweight were good enough to gain raw animal power I would have everyone doing them and throw out all of the equipment in the gym. If the comparison of bodybuilders is outside the scope of what we are looking at then I will bring up fitness competitors or any number of NHB fighters that train with weights. I actually have not seen to many gymnasts that don't supplement their training with weight training. Boxers also have went to using weight training to get the edge needed to win fights. Wrestlers are the same way. The ideology behind the use of bodyweight only exercises is slightly out-dated, very 70's-ish.

Most gymnasts do not compliment their training programs with weights. They use bodyweight exercises and leverage to increase resistance. The same goes for Russian wrestlers and sambo practitioners.

To gain a good overall build and uasble strength you need to have a complete workout and it must have: weight training, bodyweight exercises, plyometrics, and the use of heavy bag. To leave out any one of these areas will lead to mediocre performance from your body.

I don't consider that a complete workout. I advocate the use of kettlebells for weight training, but I think my point has been made concerning traditional weight lifting. The strongmen and pugilists of old often implemented bodyweight exercises into their routines, and made excellent use of kettlebells and movement based exercises.

The Gambetta method is a great guide on how to set up a workout, but using only bodyweight exercises for the workout is a great injustice to it's principles. Train your body in that manour, but you need to work with weights.

As I said before, I strongly support the use of kettlebells, which could be considered weight training, but I've been using the lingo that most people are familiar with, and I differentiate kettlebell use from free weight training as its usually found in gyms. Introduce yourself to Pavel Tsatsouline and the kettlebell. Look at the Spetznaz and Vladimir Vasiliev.

I used to be of the same mentality as you Floating Egg, but then I got this crazy idea of trying weight training to help my MA's. Having lifted for football and track gave me an idea of what I needed to do. It is all history from there.

Matt Furey thought the same as you until he met Karl Gotch. I started off with the weightlifting mentality and progressed to the approach that I have now. Once I stopped dismissing bodyweight training programs as outdated I knew that I'd never go back.

If some of you are at least curious about moving away from traditional weightlifting programs, I recommend Pushing Yourself to Power . It's what introduced me to the possibilities of bodyweight exercises. It also makes use of Matt Furey's stuff so you don't have to buy more than one book. You can also preview some of the exercises included in the book.

I understand that I'm fighting an uphill battle here, but that's fine with me. This debate won't end anytime soon, but I'm bowing out of this thread. If some of your are convinced by what I've said, that's great. The world isn't going to end if you're not.

 

[TKD USA]

Not at all. A gymnast who suppliments his bodyweight exercises with freeweights has greater potential for muscle strength (and thus overall body strength) than one who does not.

Will Mr Olypmia be able to do fifteen pull-ups? No.

Will the Olympic gold medallist Gymnast be able to lift the rear end of a family sedan? No.

However, neither skills are really "functional".

IF you actually read that link ( Building an Olympic Body.... ) you will see that the person the author was talking about, deadlifted 300lbs on his first try without any other weightlifting experience. So there is no greater between Bodyweight and Free weights. People just say free weights are better because you can contine to increase the resistance which is some thing you could still do with bodyweight exercises. I guess people are just too lazy to think that far:idunno:

 

[jkdhit]

ahh i go away for the weekend and everyones being mean lol what happened to my post?

by the way.. if you were to compare a gymnast or a power lifter to a martial artist.. it would be the gymnast who is more related than a power lifter

also to me and i'm sure the majority of people.. lifting a car still wouldnt be as impressive as being able to perform a side kick straight up into the air while holding it


ok ok now let's stop the silly talk, let's reword the question... what do some of you do as excercise to increase your power without sacraficing movement?

 

[TKD USA]

Do you mean without sacrificing flexibility?

 

[jkdhit]

yeah same thing.. i really doubt you can interpret it in another way

 

[searcher]

All lifts if done with proper technique and range of motion should give an increase without any loss of flexibility. It should actually help with it.

 

[lonecoyote]

If we're talking functional strength exercises, I'm surprised that no one has mentioned grip strength exercises. Get yourself an ironmind catalog, their stuff is great and I recommend it and also use the internet to find some great grip strength ideas. Grip strength has a lot of utility as far as clinching, throwing and grappling, as well as making a lot of your heavy lifts better because your grip won't be your weak link. I use Captains of Crush grippers, plate pinch gripping, softballs with weights hung underneath, and one handed deadlifts and sledgehammer levering, which is great for wrist strength. Not only is it functional, but it makes for ripped, veiny forearms.