Learning to take strikes

[drop bear]

I am not going to apologize for outrage against child abuse and its enablers. I have no intention of changing my opinion on the subject.

You are also being a massive, MASSIVE hypocrite. Any time a technique or method is discussed that you don't agree with, there is no self-reflection. You just bash without mercy.

I play the ball though not the man. Which is the difference.

And this emotional outrage rather that just refuting where the claim is wrong. This Iis why there is a lack of critical thinking in martial arts. Which allows instructors with no credibility to rip of unsuspecting students.

I mean Tez has now raised the bar with the comment that no head contact is acceptable for children.

Which then paints most boxing clubs in the same light as that video. Hell I even took some decent head contact playing football as a kid. So I assume those clubs would have to self reflect on their behavior.

No sparring for children at all?

 

[drop bear]

We don't allow head shots with children full stop so no, not similar, not even on the same planet. We don't video them training either, child protection.

How old is a person considered a child for head contact.

 

[Tez3]

How old is a person considered a child for head contact.

16

Current informed medical opinion is that we should all be careful about how much head contact we have. With our martial arts club the military members have to be cleared by their MO to train as they do for boxing. We also use concussion protocols for fighters, our chief instructor was a combat medic and we have access to MOs any time.
https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/bjsports/47/5/259.full.pdf

 

[skribs]

I play the ball though not the man. Which is the difference.

I normally do. In this case I made an exception. He routinely brings in bad advice to threads like this, and from what I can tell has no intention of taking training under an actual instructor ever again. He's the author of such ideas as:

• Don't use the hook punch because you can hurt yourself using it
• Flinches aren't bad, don't worry about getting rid of your flinch
• 12 year olds can consent to being beaten by adults

He has no training and comes across like he thinks he's an expert. And when he justifies child abuse along with it, it's just not okay.

 

[drop bear]

I normally do. In this case I made an exception. He routinely brings in bad advice to threads like this, and from what I can tell has no intention of taking training under an actual instructor ever again. He's the author of such ideas as:

• Don't use the hook punch because you can hurt yourself using it
• Flinches aren't bad, don't worry about getting rid of your flinch
• 12 year olds can consent to being beaten by adults

He has no training and comes across like he thinks he's an expert. And when he justifies child abuse along with it, it's just not okay.

A lot of what he said was wrong. But he is not wrong because he is a meanie poopy head.

I mean we had an adult in class sat out today because he had a concussion.

Semantically the differences was he was older and he had an opportunity to defend himself.

Are they really the differences between what makes someone an abuser and just a tough training partner?

Because they are pretty slim differences.

Do guys and girls make a difference for example?

 

[drop bear]

16

Current informed medical opinion is that we should all be careful about how much head contact we have. With our martial arts club the military members have to be cleared by their MO to train as they do for boxing. We also use concussion protocols for fighters, our chief instructor was a combat medic and we have access to MOs any time.
https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/bjsports/47/5/259.full.pdf

What about contact sports like rugby?

 

[drop bear]

I normally do. In this case I made an exception. He routinely brings in bad advice to threads like this, and from what I can tell has no intention of taking training under an actual instructor ever again. He's the author of such ideas as:

• Don't use the hook punch because you can hurt yourself using it
• Flinches aren't bad, don't worry about getting rid of your flinch
• 12 year olds can consent to being beaten by adults

He has no training and comes across like he thinks he's an expert. And when he justifies child abuse along with it, it's just not okay.

There are not many good boxers who were not competing at 12.

I know kids who have had 30 plus fights.

It is just the path they have to walk to achieve the life they want.

One of our guys from a few years back. Has since discovered girls cars and money.

WMA boxer wins third national title in a row

 

[skribs]

There are not many good boxers who were not competing at 12.

I know kids who have had 30 plus fights.

It is just the path they have to walk to achieve the life they want.

One of our guys from a few years back. Has since discovered girls cars and money.

WMA boxer wins third national title in a row

There's a big difference between competition, sparring, and training. Your training should not be standing there while your coach wails on you. If you think that is good training, then you should probably stop training.

 

[skribs]

A lot of what he said was wrong. But he is not wrong because he is a meanie poopy head.

No, he's wrong because he's inexperienced, and has completely baseless knowledge. He's a meanie poopy head (your words) because he acts like he knows everything and tries to give people advice, most of which is wrong.

In this particular case, considering what we're talking about is child abuse, he needs a reality check that really he has no actual knowledge of the subject and should probably put in some real learning before his advice is Exhibit A in a domestic violence charge.

 

[drop bear]

There's a big difference between competition, sparring, and training. Your training should not be standing there while your coach wails on you. If you think that is good training, then you should probably stop training.

Ok. What about body punches or leg kicks?

Are they ok to stand there and eat?

 

[drop bear]

No, he's wrong because he's inexperienced, and has completely baseless knowledge. He's a meanie poopy head (your words) because he acts like he knows everything and tries to give people advice, most of which is wrong.

In this particular case, considering what we're talking about is child abuse, he needs a reality check that really he has no actual knowledge of the subject and should probably put in some real learning before his advice is Exhibit A in a domestic violence charge.

The difference between martial arts and abuse or assult is consent pretty much.

 

[skribs]

Ok. What about body punches or leg kicks?

Are they ok to stand there and eat?

I said "wail on you". That could be any target.

The difference between martial arts and abuse or assult is consent pretty much.

This is unsafe training for any age. It's particularly egregious in that minors can't consent. If I had any respect for you left, it's gone after you're trying to defend this abuse.

 

[drop bear]

I said "wail on you". That could be any target.



This is unsafe training for any age. It's particularly egregious in that minors can't consent. If I had any respect for you left, it's gone after you're trying to defend this abuse.

Ok. What about drills.

Hatsumi for example is a notorious drill spaz. Is this an ok platform to hurt people?

I mean they are not fighting back.

 

[drop bear]

I said "wail on you". That could be any target.



This is unsafe training for any age. It's particularly egregious in that minors can't consent. If I had any respect for you left, it's gone after you're trying to defend this abuse.

So this is bad news?

 

[skribs]

So this is bad news?

Completely different:

1. They're not wailing on each other. Those kicks look like they're at 20% power, the punches at 30%.
2. They're training proper technique to absorb the blows, instead of just wailing on each other
3. They're both adults, and neither feels coerced into that situation.
4. It's not 2-on-1.
5. Neither of them is backed against the wall in what would be a TKO in any legit competition.

There's also a risk of concussion in the video in the OP that's not present in this drill.

You're playing devil's advocate, and I mean that literally. You're trying to help justify child abuse. Just stop.

If you think what's in the OP is justified, stop training entirely and get yourself some therapy. If you don't think it was justified, then stop trying to justify child abuse.

 

[Gweilo]

Ok. What about drills.

Hatsumi for example is a notorious drill spaz. Is this an ok platform to hurt people?

I mean they are not fighting back.

Everyone in the video of Hatsumi were an adult, and it was a demonstration of the techniques he was teaching in those sessions, it was not an initiation. The point you made about rugby, the training sessions for juniors is very different, when rugby is taught at the beginning phase, it is modified to touch rugby, where a tackle, and impact are reduced to a touch or tap, this has been so across the world since the early 70's. Tackling and impact are taught gradually, and participants are introduced to tackling from the age of 14. The full contact is not in training until the participent is 16. Your logic is flawed.

 

[Tez3]

What about contact sports like rugby?

Exactly the same , we all use the same concussion protocol, players go off if a head injury is suspected, they come back if cleared.
World Rugby Player Welfare - Putting Players First

 

[Tez3]

Everyone in the video of Hatsumi were an adult, and it was a demonstration of the techniques he was teaching in those sessions, it was not an initiation. The point you made about rugby, the training sessions for juniors is very different, when rugby is taught at the beginning phase, it is modified to touch rugby, where a tackle, and impact are reduced to a touch or tap, this has been so across the world since the early 70's. Tackling and impact are taught gradually, and participants are introduced to tackling from the age of 14. The full contact is not in training until the participent is 16. Your logic is flawed.

DB is arguing because that's what he does, he picks a point that people agree on and will argue the opposite to get a reaction.

Posting up videos of adults training when what we are discussing is children's training is a typical move.

 

[drop bear]

Exactly the same , we all use the same concussion protocol, players go off if a head injury is suspected, they come back if cleared.
World Rugby Player Welfare - Putting Players First

But head contact is allowed?

 

[Tez3]

But head contact is allowed?

You didn't read Gweilo's post did you?

The point you made about rugby, the training sessions for juniors is very different, when rugby is taught at the beginning phase, it is modified to touch rugby, where a tackle, and impact are reduced to a touch or tap, this has been so across the world since the early 70's. Tackling and impact are taught gradually, and participants are introduced to tackling from the age of 14. The full contact is not in training until the participent is 16. Your logic is flawed.