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Kung Fu Wang

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If we look at the "inner hook (Ouchi Gari)", this clip shows the footwork.


This clip shows the set up.


This clip shows how to use it against noncompliant opponent.


Can anybody learn this technique just from these 3 clips? What more information do you need? What's your thought?
 
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arnisador

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One thing that's very, very hard to get from this is the kuzushi (off-balancing) that sets the technique up. It really has to be felt--trying to learn it without feeling it leads to clumsy attempts. You could experiment with the actual technique against a compliant partner and get a general feel for it, but the set-up is, frankly, most of the technique here.

I could go on at length about the safety of doing this without instruction but won't.
 

Cyriacus

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Not unless you already have a solid base in a Martial Art.
Having a live training partner *who is trained in how to defend against it* is the only way to get better at making it work. Just having any old person who has no idea what youre doing and who is psychologically your training partner wont do you any good.
The setup is more complicated than you might think it is.
I could go on for a while, but not only are they experienced practitioners, but the training and strength building that goes into learning Judo is not present if you just learn from a video. I could learn how to do a double leg takedown from a video, because ive been doing martial arts for a while. Itd be a pretty crappy takedown. It work, but itd be barely functional compared to one taught to you by someone whos damn good at it themself to correct every tiny error you make that you couldnt possibly be aware of.

You could get every tiny morsel of information in text, but it will not benefit you any more than just saying "Grab him on the outside, step behind your lead foot, stick your rear foot between his legs and pull his parallel leg out". Because thats pretty much the throw, right?
No it isnt.

I dont train Judo, but i can see a few things. 1: Hes so used to that type of footwork that he makes it look easy to do without being pushed or pulled over. 2: Grip. 3: Do you know where on his leg the sweep is targeted? 4: Watching a video of someone practicing with a noncompliant partner doesnt translate to you having trained with a noncompliant partner. If i watched a Rocky training montage, i wont suddenly become a really fit boxer.
 

Mark Lynn

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I don't think you could learn the techniques from just these three clips. However if you already have experience in the art or with that throw, then you might watch the first one and say "Hey that is a better way to teach the foot work, I'll try it." or you might watch the competition montage and see something different that inspires you that you put to good use. Who knows.
 

seasoned

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You can Learn the technique, but you will not be able to internalize it without a competent instructor. There is always the "feeling" part of all techniques, that can never be taught. That is what owning is all about.
 

Bill Mattocks

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I agree with the comments made. I can watch a video of how to ride a bicycle all day long. In the end, I may have some theoretical knowledge of how it is accomplished, and this may aid me somewhat as I attempt it myself, but it in no way is a substitute for getting on a bicycle and riding.

I also agree with the commends others have made to the effect that yes, once you have that technique down pretty well, watching a video can be most enlightening in fine-tuning, seeing other options, and so on.

Learn it from a video? Not strictly speaking, no.
 

Mark Lynn

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I also agree with the commends others have made to the effect that yes, once you have that technique down pretty well, watching a video can be most enlightening in fine-tuning, seeing other options, and so on.

Learn it from a video? Not strictly speaking, no.

Bill

I would venture to say that if you have a basis in the art or similar you can watch a You Tube video and learn a the technique or drill. For instance let's say I watch a video on a certain FMA drill or say a technique a disarm or something. If I'm familiar with the type of strike and have used similar disarms then I believe I can then go and apply that same technique after working on it for a while (depending upon how hard I trained at it). To me it is the same as if the instructor showed the same technique drill or whatever at a seminar or in a class.

This is different than being totally un familar with a style or system say Preying Mantis Kung Fu and looking at it and say I'm learning Preying Mantis Kung Fu from You Tube. Better yet I don't believe having never studied Tai Chi that I could watch a DVD and learn Tai Chi. I might copy the form; but it is the same as a Parrot, it can say the words but it doesn't know them or understand them.
 
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Kung Fu Wang

Kung Fu Wang

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I don't believe having never studied Tai Chi that I could watch a DVD and learn Tai Chi.

I don't believe anybody can learn "style" from youtube. But to learn some simple techniques should not be that hard. When people say that this style doesn't have roundhouse kick and that style doesn't have hook punch, I have always wondered how hard can that be just to add both techniques into your style?
 

Cyriacus

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I don't believe anybody can learn "style" from youtube. But to learn some simple techniques should not be that hard. When people say that this style doesn't have roundhouse kick and that style doesn't have hook punch, I have always wondered how hard can that be just to add both techniques into your style?
Id argue that a hook punch would be alot easier to self teach than a takedown.
 

Buka

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It depends on "the watcher". A person with little or no experience in the Arts will get nothing, or at the most "whatever".
A seasoned Martial Artist, especially a visual learner, just might feel like it's Christmas morning.
 

Aiki Lee

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Someone with a solid foundation in their art could learn to do a technique from a video, but if the technique has some lessons hidden in the form, you likely won't be able to pick up on those if you are not familiar with that particular art.
 

Gentle Fist

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As stated earlier hard to learn from videos without a proper base that was given by a "real" instructor.
 

Bill Mattocks

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But to learn some simple techniques should not be that hard.

In my limited experience, simple techniques often contain subtle but important details that a book or a video simply is not going to impart.

Anyone with functioning arms can throw a punch. Not everyone can throw an effective punch. You can watch videos all day long about how to throw a proper punch and not only not be able to do it, but not understand why it's not working for you. Or worse, believe you have learned it when you have not.

For me, the classic example was when I was taught the simple open-hand overhead block. I see all the students do it, they all look the same to *my* eyes as a student. Yet, our instructor walked down the line and noted, one by one, what was wrong with each block and demonstrated how they were defective. When he came to me, I was sure I had it locked in; but he pushed down on my arm and I could not resist the pressure, my arm came down. Then he adjusted my posture a tiny bit. A touch here, a slight move there. And I was locked in. He leaned on my arm with all his weight; he wasn't moving my block. I could not believe how small the difference was between a crap block and a good block. And how difficult for a newbie like me to look at someone else's block and see the issue.

No, I do not, for one minute, believe you can learn effective techniques from Youtube video. It's a fool's dream. Unless a person is exceptionally gifted and able to find all the subtle but important details of a given move, they will perform it very badly. It may look all that, but when they throw it for real, it won't work and they won't understand why.

Learning from videos is crap. My 2 cents.
 

Bill Mattocks

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Someone with a solid foundation in their art could learn to do a technique from a video, but if the technique has some lessons hidden in the form, you likely won't be able to pick up on those if you are not familiar with that particular art.

Bingo. And in my opinion, EVERYTHING has subtle details that are important. They may not be 'hidden' but they are not something one can see in a Youtube video. Even down to throwing a straight punch or blocking one.
 

lklawson

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I disagree with almost all of you on one level or another.

See, here's the thing. I know for a FACT that it is not only possible to learn ouchi gari (or any other martial arts "technique") but to also create it whole-cloth from thin air.

How do I know this for a fact? Because someone, some time in the past, did so. Mankind wasn't born with an innate instinct for doing ouchi gari. Someone along the line had to develop it. And it didn't take a martial arts genius, a fighting einstein, just a special set of circumstances. It's just a physical skill for cry'n out loud. It ain't magic.

Now, here where I agree with you. While it is possible to learn without instruction, or even create anew, a martial arts "technique" it is the LEAST efficient of all possible methods. Even a talented athlete will have a much longer learning curve than if there was an instructor. If the athlete has a solid base in another, similar, physical activity ("tumbling" maybe?) then that can facilitate gaining a skill but it's still slower than if being guided by someone who already knows how. Further, the DIY method is simply a lot more dangerous. The "invent it myself" originator of the techniques didn't necessarily know what would make the technique dangerous to himself, leave himself open for counters, or even just put his own body in a structurally vulnerable position. A competent instructor will already know all of these things. And this goes double for weapons techniques, which also required a Patient Zero. Screw up ouchi gari and maybe you get dumped on your butt. Screw up passata sotto and you die.
View attachment $70.jpg

But that's the great thing about the vast majority of martial arts: There are actual instructors ready and easily available to grant instruction. Even "dead" martial arts such as European Longsword has experienced martial artists working hard to bring it to functionality.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk
 
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Kung Fu Wang

Kung Fu Wang

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Besides just learning "technique" from Youtube. Sometime you can even learn "principle" from Youtube as well. By watching that "inner hook (ouchi gari)" clip, you should be able to learn the principle - If you "push" your opponent's upper body downward and "hook" his leg upward at the same time, he will fall. If you are smart enough, you may also figure out that the inverse of that principle should also work - If you "pull" your opponent's upper body downward and "sweep" his leg upward at the same time, he will also fall.

If you see a "groin kick, face punch" combo in youtube, with your imagination, you should be able to figure out:

- roundhouse kick, hook punch combo,
- side kick, spin back fist combo,
- ...

In order to learn MA, we all need to use our brain as much as possible. We should not assume our teacher will spoon feed us.
 
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Aiki Lee

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Besides just learning "technique" from Youtube. Sometime you can even learn "principle" from Youtube as well..

Maybe. If you have past training and know what to look for in such things.

By watching that "inner hook (ouchi gari)" clip, you should be able to learn the principle - If you "push" your opponent's upper body downward and "hook" his leg upward at the same time, he will fall. If you are smart enough, you may also figure out that the inverse of that principle should also work - If you "pull" your opponent's upper body downward and "sweep" his leg upward at the same time, he will also fall.

At the most basic level I think you could copy the movements and see the more obvious principles like the push/pull mechanic, but without previous training in similar skills would you be able to notice that you aren't just pushing the top body but rather turning it like a wheel? That you need instruction to see. At least, I do.

If you see a "groin kick, face punch" combo in youtube, with your imagination, you should be able to figure out:

- roundhouse kick, hook punch combo,
- side kick, spin back fist combo,
-
Basic physical movements can be copied, but most people must be trained to learn how to observe principles. You can copy the movements of a kick or a punch, but when using a combination you have to be taught about timing, distancing and angling unless you have past experience with it already.

In order to learn MA, we all need to use our brain as much as possible. We should not assume our teacher will spoon feed us.

I completely agree.
 

Bill Mattocks

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Truthfully, I would like to spar against someone who has trained themselves by watching videos or reading books. I'd really enjoy it. I'm not that good at sparring, but I believe I'd do pretty well against such an expert. Let me know when someone wants to give it a try, I'm willing.
 

jezr74

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I started Shotokan for about two months, and have had to stop until mid Jan when I am back in the country to continue. I was taught heidan shodan in the last two lessons and wasn't able to memorize completely along with the basics I was taught.

I've since used youtube videos (and diagrams/books) to fill the gaps and keep me going and motivated until I get back. I've used two video sources to try and replicate the form, and that matched with what I could remember. I've since become more fluid with the Kata and have been practicing the basics I can recall.

There was subtle things taught to me during the beginning classes that I could not find/understand in my books or in the videos, foot placement, weight shifting and especially hip direction. I've stuck to only practicing what I was taught and use youtube just as a reminder.

While tempted to move on to the next Kata to get a few steps ahead, or other strikes and blocks not taught to me previously. I've become very conscious of doing them wrong and have progress slow down later on while I unlearn bad habits.

So my opinion is while video training may have its place, its limited and could never replace at least initial, physical instruction. Before it just becomes a handy supplement for practice.

From this beginners point of view.


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