Leaping Crane

satans.barber

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In Leaping Crane, why does the technique carry on not once, but twice after a neck break? Presumable this is meant to kill the person, to why add any moves after that point?

I realise that Leaping Crane has relatively few practical moves compared to a lot of the other techniques, and is more for principles, but it still seems odd to continue to beat on someone when you're meant to have killed them...?

I also don't think the kicks at the end are particularly realistic, I think that if executed with power, the first front snap kick to the lower spine would knock the person forwards onto their hands or front, I don't think they'd still be knelt there for the hook kick. If it didn't, surely the hook kick would then knock the person over backwards, and again they wouldn't still be knelt there for the straightening leg move (has this got a proper name? I always just call it a 'straightening leg')

Usually when a technique feels this wrong to me, it's because I'm doing it wrong...!

Ian.
 
E

Elfan

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Could you explain how your doing Leaping Crane so we are all on the same page? I don't recall multiple kicks or more than one strike after the neck break. Are you refering to the extension to leaping crane?

Also, what moves in leaping crane do you consider to not be practical?
 
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rmcrobertson

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First off, a general principle about American kenpo: all of the moves, in all of the techniques, are practical. Always. We may not see the application, but that isn't the technique nor the system's fault.

A second principle: for each move, more than one application is possible.

Now as for "Leaping Crane." What hook kick? The technique I was taught basically goes like this: in response to a right straight step-through punch, leap left into a crane stance, while simultaneously inward parrying with your left and delivering a right raking middle knuckle to the opponent's ribcage. From the crane stance, execute a right sidekick to the back of your opponent's right knee, and a right back-knuckle strike to their left kidney as you plant forward, ending the base technique with a right inward elbow to the head, "sandwiching" with your left hand.

The extension: from the elbow, snake your right hand around to the left side of the opponent's face and rip out, pivoting to a right forward bow and simultaneously delivering a left chop to the base of the neck. if necessary, go on to pivot baack to the right neutral bow, while delivering a right hand-sword to the right side of the opponent's neck. Rip the right hand down, together with a left handsword and a right scoop kick to the groin as you step through in reverse, going right into a left ball kick to the opponent's lower spine.

As they fall forward, leap with the left foot to the opponent's right side, into a zone of sanctuary. If they attempt to get up and come after you again, deliver a left rear stiff leg raise beneath the jaw, turning them partly over, and end with a right rear kick that slides along the floor and "pinches," down on the ribcage. If this doesn't stop them, run like crazy.

What hook kick?

As for the two neck breaks, a) they're there partly to teach different ways of doing it; b) to teach breaks along different axes. Also, however, they don't have to be neck-breaks. What happens, for example, if they reach back with their right hand, and as you hand-sword the neck with your left you reach over the top of their hand (see Twirling Hammers) and sharply pull their right hand back with your right hand?
 

Michael Billings

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I have seen the lifting kick done as a hook, or for a demo done a hook after the neck break, handsword, claw, because the crowd loves it, and not for any other reason.

Here is the IDEAL PHASE extension I have on my webpage. NOTE: This extension is also the last technique in Long Form #5. (as written.)

Leaping Crane (Front- Right Step Through Punch)

1. An opponent from 12:00 comes at you with a right step through punch.
2. Hop towards 1:30 into a transitory one legged stance as you simultaneously execute a left inward parry to your opponent's right arm and a right inward raking middle knuckle strike to your opponent's right ribs.
3. Immediately execute a right knife-edge kick to opponent's right knee.
4. Land in a right neutral bow facing 1:30 utilize gravitational marriage as you execute a right back fist to your opponent's spine. Note: This strike should be vertical and striking down, low enough so their head will come back as they react to the pain.
5. Take advantage of their reaction. Grab your opponent's right shoulder with your left hand and hold them in place as you execute a right inward elbow to your opponent's head. (This allows you to cock your right elbow and get full rotation on the strike.)
6. Circle your right hand clockwise as it ends up against the left side of your opponent's face while your left hand checks the back of your opponent's head at your right shoulder.
7. Without hesitation, shift into a right forward bow as you execute a right claw across your opponent's face as you simultaneously execute a left chop to the back of your opponent's neck. Note: Within this sequence, the effectiveness is based on the combination of opposing force, borrowed force, and a bracing angle.
8. Pivot into a right neutral bow as you execute a right inward hand sword to the right side of your opponent's neck.
9. Continue to flow through this motion as you execute a right front scoop to your opponent's groin followed by a left front kick to your opponent's upper spine.
10. From the point of contact on your left kick drop into a left front crossover stomp onto your opponent's ankle to break it.
11. Slide your left foot to 7:30 where your right foot is. Execute a right front crossover to 3:00 as you execute a left stiff-leg lifting kick up and under your opponent's chin.
12. Plant your left kick towards 10:30 as you pivot into a left front twist stance. Unwind and execute a right round kick to your opponent's head.
13. Execute a right front crossover and cross out to 5:30.

-Michael
UKS-Texas
 
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satans.barber

satans.barber

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Hrmm, seems like this is on of the ones that we've modified. Our one goes like this:

Leaping Crane, against a right step through punch

1. hop forwards with the left foot to 10 o' clock into a crane stance as you execute a rear single knuckle strike to the floating rib and parry with the left hand,

2. from the crane stance, execute a side blade kick to the back of the opponent's right knee,

3. as they go down, plant between their legs into a right fighting stance and use the right hand to execute a backfist to the opponents left kidney, keeping the left hand high as a check,

4. from the backfist, execute a right elbow sandwich to the head,

5. from the elbow sandwich drop the right hand down to the chin, brace the shoulder with the left hand and break the neck,

6. as the hand whips up, bring it down to the other side of the neck in an right inwards handsword,

7. from the handsword, break the neck in the other direction, again bracing on the left shoulder,

8. as you break the neck, step back and use a right scoop kick to the groin, coming into a left fighting stance,

9. front left snap kick to the lower spine,

10. then, without planting down, stomp to the back of the right ankle...

11. ... and plant to the side of the opponent's right leg, check the shoulder and then left hook kick to the face,

12. finally plant down and spin around and use a straightening leg to send them forwards into the floor, checking with the right hand.



That seems to be fairly similar to me, although obviously we're takcin on the extension from day 1.

The hook kick I was referring to Mr. Billings has down as a lifting heel, which would make more sense as the person would be less inclined to be knocked backwards, and would be there for the final move.

It's the kick to the spine that concerns me, I'm sure if executed with power it would send the person onto their front or hands making it difficult for the technique to be completed.

Ian.
 
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rmcrobertson

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Not at all. You jump off to their right, use the left leg lift to flip 'em over as they attempr to rise, and pinch down with the right heel.

Otherwise, looks pretty much the same.
 
E

Elfan

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I'd be happy if none of my techniques worked on the street because they kept falling down before I was done. ;)
 
W

WilliamTLear

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Originally posted by Elfan

I'd be happy if none of my techniques worked on the street because they kept falling down before I was done. ;)

I've had some work from begining to end in real altercations, and some work too well (I only got the first one or two moves in the technique off.) I personally like the second result because it's less work, but then again... we are trainied to economize motion.

Either way... KENPO ROCKS! :cool:
 
H

Handsword

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In regards to the first strike in Leaping Crane - I have a bit of trouble generating power for this strike, especially against a larger-bellied opponent.

For this reason, I perform less of a 'rake' and more of a direct, linear strike (palm initially facing inward so that it can be twisted to face upward as it rakes out after contact). The strike makes contact with the step of the left leg, then twists and rakes out as the right leg slides up to the crane stance.

Comments welcome.
 

tarabos

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i've always done the first strike as a knuckle rake/strike of sorts to the funny bone...(don't know the technical term for it). just the way i learned it...and it's quick to do, but not really easy. it's a pinpoint strike, and takes a lot of practice to get it right everytime, and you can't always gauge it corrrectly every time for different people. still, it can cause some pain no matter where it hits.
 

jfarnsworth

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I use the middle knuckle rake through the fleshy part of the bicep muscle. Pretty much like the strike in gathering clouds. I found this easier to do due to being shorter my arms are shorter than a guy 6' tall. If I try for the ribs most generally the punch is there before I can get to them.
 

kenpo3631

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From what I've read in this post the base technique Leaping Crane is being done the same way by all that have posted. That in itself is remarkable...:rofl: Seriously I was hoping to contribute something to this post.

I read satans.barber's original post, remeber, it's "not overkill but over skill". Hopefully if you ever had to use this technique you'd never get to the extension, if you did, you would be doing something wrong! Mr. Parker used to say if you had to hit a man more than three times you were doing something wrong. What people tend to forget is that while not only does the technique convey principles and body mechanics it also teaches built in contingency plans in case we miss with a strike.

As an aside... When bringing the right arm across you are following "block & cock" theory. You never block and cock with a seperate move, meaning you don't block with one move and cock with another move. Although you are not blocking with the right arm you compound the movement by striking the opponents ribcage or brachus with the raking movement while bringing your hand to the cocked position on the left side of the body.

Just my take on things:asian:
 

Brother John

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First off, it's good vocab!
2nd
you said:
you're meant to have killed them

You may not have. Spraining their neck is easier and more likely, but to really break the neck isn't as easy as many believe. (told to me by a Green Beret from VietNam)
Therefore, it's back-up, not overkill.
Besides, I think that Mr. Parker pointed it out that it IS ethical to "kick a man while he's down" if he could continue to threaten your life and well-being if he were to get back up.
Your Brother
John
 

Doc

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Originally posted by tarabos
i've always done the first strike as a knuckle rake/strike of sorts to the funny bone...(don't know the technical term for it). just the way i learned it...and it's quick to do, but not really easy. it's a pinpoint strike, and takes a lot of practice to get it right everytime, and you can't always gauge it corrrectly every time for different people. still, it can cause some pain no matter where it hits.

In my opinion, those who attack the arm are on the right track. I was taught to attack the Heart Meridian Point at the elbow joint, and to think of this technique as the beginning of Short Form Two sideways underneath instead of over the top.
 

cdhall

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Originally posted by Handsword
In regards to the first strike in Leaping Crane - I have a bit of trouble generating power for this strike, especially against a larger-bellied opponent.

For this reason, I perform less of a 'rake' and more of a direct, linear strike (palm initially facing inward so that it can be twisted to face upward as it rakes out after contact). The strike makes contact with the step of the left leg, then twists and rakes out as the right leg slides up to the crane stance.

Comments welcome.

I think the strike is to the ribs and the size of the opponents belly should not matter much.

However, I also wanted to say that while I was initially taught this as a "step off to the left, parry the arm, middle-knuckle strike the ribs" Mr. Duffy prefers to have us slip the punch and check as we go by and blast through the ribs with the middle-knuckle so that we almost go through a Close Kneel on the way to the one-legged stance.

He likes the extra power you get from this. It is more effective than how I was originally taught and sounds similar to what Handsword is saying. :confused:
 

jfarnsworth

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Originally posted by cdhall
I think the strike is to the ribs and the size of the opponents belly should not matter much.

However, I also wanted to say that while I was initially taught this as a "step off to the left, parry the arm, middle-knuckle strike the ribs" Mr. Duffy prefers to have us slip the punch and check as we go by and blast through the ribs with the middle-knuckle so that we almost go through a Close Kneel on the way to the one-legged stance.

He likes the extra power you get from this. It is more effective than how I was originally taught and sounds similar to what Handsword is saying. :confused:

I have shorter arms than most people I work out with. Their usually around 6' and I'm a mere 5'7" I find the bicep works best for me as I cause the muscle dysfunction and I'm also around them much faster. Maybe I'll get the stomach maybe not but doesn't gathering clouds already do that movement your looking at? Just another perspective.
 

cdhall

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Originally posted by jfarnsworth
I have shorter arms than most people I work out with. Their usually around 6' and I'm a mere 5'7" I find the bicep works best for me as I cause the muscle dysfunction and I'm also around them much faster. Maybe I'll get the stomach maybe not but doesn't gathering clouds already do that movement your looking at? Just another perspective.
I'm lost.
How are you hitting the bicep if you are working the outside of the arm?
:confused:
 

jfarnsworth

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Originally posted by cdhall
I'm lost.
How are you hitting the bicep if you are working the outside of the arm?
:confused:

When the punch comes in I leap slighly forward with my left inward parry as i execute a right middle knuckle rake through the bottom portion of the bicep/tricep area. My right hand will travel through the target to load up on my left side so once I sidekick it's already loaded in the cocked position.
 

cdhall

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Originally posted by jfarnsworth
When the punch comes in I leap slighly forward with my left inward parry as i execute a right middle knuckle rake through the bottom portion of the bicep/tricep area. My right hand will travel through the target to load up on my left side so once I sidekick it's already loaded in the cocked position.

Ah! You are hitting the bicep from underneath then?
I think I get it.

I also read in Infinite Insights Book 1 last night that Mitose's original art... focused on pressure points and vital strikes... hmm... did Mr. Parker hold this info back for a long time? I will ask Doc.
 

jfarnsworth

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Originally posted by cdhall
I also read in Infinite Insights Book 1 last night that Mitose's original art... focused on pressure points and vital strikes... hmm... did Mr. Parker hold this info back for a long time? I will ask Doc.

;) You and I both can see that it is under heavy debate over in the other kenpo forum.
 

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