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Monkey Turned Wolf

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And the guy that got quite a few points through punches

Edit: Not removing the spoiler tag, but it seems to just be whiting it out with no option to view. Can someone let me know if they can see what I wrote after the word "punches"? If not, I'll alert forum foundry that the tag isn't working properly.
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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@Kung Fu Wang You've stated a couple times that your biggest issue with judo is lack of grip fighting. Watch the mongolia-netherlands judo match today. Constant grip-fighting leading to whoever wins initiating the throw.
 

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Well...I'm tired...they told me after knee surgery it would be 10 yo 18 weeks before I'd get a good nights sleep....and I am here to tell you.... on the last day of week 6... they are right...so far.......
 

Kung Fu Wang

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@Kung Fu Wang You've stated a couple times that your biggest issue with judo is lack of grip fighting. Watch the mongolia-netherlands judo match today. Constant grip-fighting leading to whoever wins initiating the throw.
When I was in a Judo forum, I asked the same question. A judo teacher said, "Are you competing in Olympic game? If not, you should not have concern with grip fight?"

In his opinion, normal Judo guys don't need to train grip fight which I disagree with strongly.

What's grip fight? You want to have a grip on your opponent, but you don't want your opponent to have grip on you. As long as your opponent has no grip on you, he cannot throw you. That's just common sense.
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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When I was in a Judo forum, I asked the same question. A judo teacher said, "Are you competing in Olympic game? If not, you should not have concern with grip fight?"

In his opinion, normal Judo guys don't need to train grip fight which I disagree with strongly.

What's grip fight? You want to have a grip on your opponent, but you don't want your opponent to have grip on you. As long as your opponent has no grip on you, he cannot throw you. That's just common sense.
So the idea you have isn't that sport/olympic judo doesn't have grip fight, it's that normal judo doesn't? Just want to make sure I understand.

If that's the idea, that's not my experience with judo-the few judo places I've been to, most randori started with a grip fight. I don't see why anyone would argue against it, since so many throws start with a grip.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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most randori started with a grip fight.
My experience is different. I have wrestled with many Judo guys. They would let me to grab them without much resistance. They then grab back on me. It's like "gentlemen agreement" that I let you to grab me, and you let me to grab you, the wrestling then start.

When that happened, I always tried to tear apart my opponent's grip/grips. Sometime they didn't understand why did I want to do that for?

I then realize that to tear apart opponent's grips may not be as common as I thought in most Judo practice.

 
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Monkey Turned Wolf

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My experience is different. I have wrestled with many Judo guys. They would let me to grab them without much resistance. They then grab back on me. It's like "gentlemen agreement" that I let you to grab me, and you let me to grab you, the wrestling then start.

When that happened, I always tried to tear apart my opponent's grip/grips. Sometime they didn't understand why did I want to do that for?
Huh, that's interesting. My experience has been that they try to grab me without letting me grab them. Or, they allow to start off for an equal grab (I have one hold near the neck, one by the wrist, and they have the same), and try to get a better hold (either by removing my neck, or moving their wrist up to my elbow/shoulder) before then going for a hold. Maybe that second one, where you start off with equal grips and then try to improve your grip is what you're thinking of? If so, that's not an "allow a grip" so much as starting position. Same way some BJJ schools start on the knees with both hands on the shoulders..you don't want to let someone have that, but if you were to start in a dominant position there wouldn't be much challenge.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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not an "allow a grip" so much as starting position..
When that happened, I always pretended as if I was a left hand person. I would grab my opponent's left side lapel and left sleeve. When my opponent did the same, and when I teared apart his grips, I would get his right lapel and right sleeve that I truly wanted.

This is why I believe that MA is just a big cheating game. The more that I wrestled, the more that my opponent would think I was a dishonest person.
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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When that happened, I always pretended as if I was a left hand person. I would grab my opponent's left side lapel and left sleeve. When my opponent did the same, and when I teared apart his grips, I would get his right lapel and right sleeve that I truly wanted.

This is why I believe that MA is just a big cheating game. The more that I wrestled, the more that my opponent would think I was a dishonest person.
I've done that too. That's them being dumb.
 

Tony Dismukes

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My experience is different. I have wrestled with many Judo guys. They would let me to grab them without much resistance. They then grab back on me. It's like "gentlemen agreement" that I let you to grab me, and you let me to grab you, the wrestling then start.

When that happened, I always tried to tear apart my opponent's grip/grips. Sometime they didn't understand why did I want to do that for?

I then realize that to tear apart opponent's grips may not be as common as I thought in most Judo practice.

It has to do with the teaching process and the context of the practice at the moment.

Grip fighting is hugely important in serious Judo competition and any high level judoka will have an arsenal of tactics for achieving superior grips and preventing the opponent from getting good grips.

However the traditional Japanese pedagogy in Judo has been to first focus on building a strong foundation in proper movement before concentrating on achieving superior grips. Thus it is fairly common to have students practice drills and randori from neutral grips for a long time so they can focus on refining footwork and timing. Concentration on grip fighting often comes later.

In other parts of the world, that order may be reversed. I believe the former Soviet bloc (Russia and Eastern Europe) brought a lot of innovation to the grip fighting game in Judo and showed how important dominant grips could be.

In the U.S., I’ve seen it taught both ways, depending on the teacher. Some like to build grip fighting skills early, while others prefer to focus on other aspects of the art first.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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Some like to build grip fighting skills early, while others prefer to focus on other aspects of the art first.
This may be the difference. Chinese wrestling is similar to Judo. But Chinese wrestling teachers don't teach defense and counter during the first 1 or 2 years. Chinese wrestling teachers prefer their students to attack and lose than to defend and win.
 

Xue Sheng

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sitting here watching tv, got sick of tv, found there was a on demand movie channel, with free movies....FIST OF FURY!!!!! AWESOME..... so I started it.......... ready to sit here and watch something good.........but no......dang thing is in Cantonese.....well that stinks
 

granfire

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I'm sitting here working home, still in recovery mode from the whole knee replacement thing. Doing all sorts of iPhone support and connectivity support this morning for my office, And I am left with one thought....retirement can't come soon enough.

And I STILL can't train any MA....so...I guess I am off to do my PT exercises again.
What?! You have not started Cane-Do yet?
 
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Dirty Dog

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Also noticing that they only use one limb the entire time. I know the lead leg is hugely useful in WT, but I'm surprised there's no attempts to use the other 3 limbs.
Front leg is faster, and it's virtually impossible to score with a punch. I am not a fan at all of WT sparing.
 

Xue Sheng

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Front leg is faster, and it's virtually impossible to score with a punch. I am not a fan at all of WT sparing.

I was training at my first CMA school and the sifu knew a TKD teacher and they decided that the students of both schools should get together for some sparing, at the TKD school. We showed up and the TKD teacher told us where we could hit, where we couldn't hit, where we could punch and kick, what kicks we could use, where we made points, no joint locking, and so on. I walked off the mat. The teacher came and asked me why. I said you want me to fight like a TKD student and I train Long fist and Xingyiquan, even told him when I trained TKD we didn't even have these rules, and you want me to spar using TKD.....most of my sifu's students did not do so well, based on points, because they had a hard time following those rules. Did well in matches, lost due to the point systems
 
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Dirty Dog

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I was training at my first CMA school and the sifu knew a TKD teacher and they decided that the students of both schools should get together for some sparing, at the TKD school. We showed up and the TKD teacher told us where we could hit, where we couldn't hit, where we could punch and kick, what kicks we could use, where we made points, no joint locking, and so on. I walked off the mat. The teacher came and asked me why. I said you want me to fight like a TKD student and I train Long fist and Xingyiquan, even told him when I trained TKD we didn't even have these rules, and you want me to spar using TKD.....most of my sifu's students did not do so well, based on points, because they had a hard time following those rules. Did well in matches, lost due to the point systems
The WT rules are, I think, pretty silly.
I've had more than one student DQ'd, mostly because their trained reflexes didn't cater to WT rules. If your hands are down, it's really really hard for our people to resist throwing the hand to the head.
There also seems to be confusion some places about what "contact" means. Young lady from our school, a 4th geup, was competing in an open tourney. Rules as given to us were striking only, whole body, no locks/throws/grappling, full contact. Fair enough. She drops her opponent with a spinning back kick to the belly. He refused to come back out to finish the match. She was told it was excessive contact and she'd be thrown out if she did it again.
Isn't that what full contact means?
 

Kung Fu Wang

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If someone challenges you

- arm wrestling only?
- boxing only?
- wrestling only?
- TKD only?
- BJJ only?
- kickboxing only?
- Sanda only?
- MMA only?
- sword fight only?
- staff/spear fight only?
- ...

Will you accept that challenge? If the answer is yes, why? If the answer is no, why?
 
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Dirty Dog

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If someone challenges you

- arm wrestling only?
- fist fight only?
- wrestling only?
- kickboxing only?
- Sanda only?
- MMA only?
- sword fight only?
- staff/spear fight only?
- ...

Will you accept that challenge? If the answer is yes, why? If the answer is no, why?
The answer is "Maybe" because the specifics matter.
 
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