lack of serious martial artists

[Diagen]

Sure, but that's not at all what your post suggested doing.

How do you think one conquers fear? Should one go out and have real life or death fights? Think about what you are saying.
I don't care where you guys are coming from it's ridiculous and overly sensitive.

Is that supposed to seem deep? I'm not sure what this post is even about.

I am saying to the guy I replied to that I am being as direct and honest as possible. There's no dressing to my words. Meanwhile he suggests that I try and tell someone to conquer fear without telling someone to conquer fear, or that one should "use fear" without "conquering fear" which are about the same thing anyway so it makes no sense.
If you "use fear" and dont' "conquer fear" then perhaps one's use of fear is minimal and it has no place in one's experiences. In which case one is hardly using fear and the statements by Tez3 are nonsense either way.
Am I understood?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

How do you think one conquers fear? Should one go out and have real life or death fights? Think about what you are saying.
I don't care where you guys are coming from it's ridiculous and overly sensitive.

What you're suggesting is to cultivate fear, not conquer it. Teaching yourself to fear something as if it were deadly isn't healthy. And doesn't really do anything to overcome fear. Stepping into a ring would go much farther toward what you're suggesting for most people, as would any number of acts that genuinely create anxiety or fear for the person involved.

I suspect your original point was more about being serious in your training, as if it mattered for life-and-death situations, which is a valid philosophy to bring to training.

 

[Diagen]

What you're suggesting is to cultivate fear, not conquer it. Teaching yourself to fear something as if it were deadly isn't healthy. And doesn't really do anything to overcome fear. Stepping into a ring would go much farther toward what you're suggesting for most people, as would any number of acts that genuinely create anxiety or fear for the person involved.

I suspect your original point was more about being serious in your training, as if it mattered for life-and-death situations, which is a valid philosophy to bring to training.

You're contradicting yourself and missing the goal here. You state stepping into the ring would help one conquer fear, or any act that genuinely creates anxiety or fear. One of these would be to get into a life or death fight. I don't suggest doing that.
Your fear grows because it doesn't match the fear of a life or death fight because it's mere training or sparring, so as one improves their capacity to generate similar fear levels you notice it growing.
Your last line is agreeable. The more serious one takes it, the wording of that line changes though. "as if it mattered for life-and-death" becomes "because it matters for life-and-death" becomes "it will decide whether you live or die" becomes "live or die trying" becomes chaotic intensity far away from a computer screen. Or something along those lines.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You're contradicting yourself and missing the goal here. You state stepping into the ring would help one conquer fear, or any act that genuinely creates anxiety or fear. One of these would be to get into a life or death fight. I don't suggest doing that.
Your fear grows because it doesn't match the fear of a life or death fight because it's mere training or sparring, so as one improves their capacity to generate similar fear levels you notice it growing.
Your last line is agreeable. The more serious one takes it, the wording of that line changes though. "as if it mattered for life-and-death" becomes "because it matters for life-and-death" becomes "it will decide whether you live or die" becomes "live or die trying" becomes chaotic intensity far away from a computer screen. Or something along those lines.

You're talking gibberish again: " becomes chaotic intensity far away from a computer screen".

Most people's training doesn't matter for life-and-death situations. And training, itself, is not a life-and-death situation - which is where you started this whole thing.

 

[Diagen]

You're talking gibberish again: " becomes chaotic intensity far away from a computer screen".

Most people's training doesn't matter for life-and-death situations. And training, itself, is not a life-and-death situation - which is where you started this whole thing.

That's not gibberish. Talking online would be replaced with intense training if one were most serious about it.
Most people's training doesn't matter for life and death because their training doesn't prepare them for it. Training isn't a life or death scenario usually but that doesn't mean one can't imagine it so, what's your point?
You don't know the potential of martial arts or training but it seems like you assume you do.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You don't know the potential of martial arts or training but it seems like you assume you do.

I think this sums up your attitude of those who disagree with you.

 

[isshinryuronin]

Am I understood?

Diagen seems infatuated with his own physio-psychologicial, overly verbose, concepts. I think we mostly do not understand where the heck he's coming from, other than expressing his ideas in complex literary tag phrases (sounds kind of cool there)

Diagen, how have YOU conquered fear and trained for a true life and death struggle?

IMO, you conquer fear by denying the danger or risk. But life-death combat is inherently dangerous and risky. To deny this removes the incentive to fight like hell with vigorous offense and defense.

One should accept the fear, along with the danger and risk. By embracing this, you now have a handle on the spiritual side of combat and can put your full energy on the mental and physical aspect - that being landing disabling attacks, without taking one, and continuing to do so until the opponent is crushed.

It's quite simple - but not necessarily easy (or even possible for some who have become too domesticated to be responsible for their own survival.)

 

[Diagen]

I think this sums up your attitude of those who disagree with you.

Whether it sums up my attitude or not, I am trying to see other's point of view the entire conversation. If you want to approach something from a different angle I am game. Most people tend to be rigid in their point of view, hence why I would be somewhat confrontational. Most people are not confrontational or overly confrontational without much explanation and perspectives are not easily changed this way.

You admit that in this conversation you have made claims I have generally refuted or used to clarify my position, yes? And in the end it adds to the discussion even if the participants find it gives their mind an indian burn?

 

[Diagen]

Diagen seems infatuated with his own physio-psychologicial, overly verbose, concepts. I think we mostly do not understand where the heck he's coming from, other than expressing his ideas in complex literary tag phrases (sounds kind of cool there)

Diagen, how have YOU conquered fear and trained for a true life and death struggle?

IMO, you conquer fear by denying the danger or risk. But life-death combat is inherently dangerous and risky. To deny this removes the incentive to fight like hell with vigorous offense and defense.

One should accept the fear, along with the danger and risk. By embracing this, you now have a handle on the spiritual side of combat and can put your full energy on the mental and physical aspect - that being landing disabling attacks, without taking one, and continuing to do so until the opponent is crushed.

It's quite simple - but not necessarily easy (or even possible for some who have become too domesticated to be responsible for their own survival.)

"How have YOU conquered fear and trained for a true life and death struggle?"
I lived for years in fear and treating things not life and death as life and death.
Imagined for years that there was someone around every corner so would check with my balance and footing adjusted with flashes of weapons flying towards my eye or torso sort of flash-blinding my mind from mental sensitivity due to exhaustion and heightened sense imagination if it's close range or someone stepping out or hiding in shadows, or animals in places or charging me and in all this tensing the body in the ready for the counter with adrenaline and somesuch pumping and getting viscerally aggressive.

Imagined my chair would break and the splintered wood would jam into my body and organs; always kept aware of center of balance and weight distribution and kept feet on the ground and or arms positioned a certain way; or kept my body dense by some process I can't explain but let's me shrug off hits to torso and has a certain sensation associated with it so I can manage to do it; not entirely consistent but would stressfully go back to keeping balance or dense very frequently. I think the dense feeling was the organs being positioned right, muscles in a strong state, and internal pressure consistence.

Performed physical challenges with no preparation. This might be more misery. I exercise with fear of destroying my body and fear of snapping my neck when doing handstands though, and deal with and conquer it.

Take conspiracy theories seriously and still don't believe the world is a safe place and that there's no way to verify if what is considered true (common narrative) is true, or that conspiracy theories are false. Equal possibility and I believe many things are generally true like that p. Edo is absolutely prevalent and executives and our shoguns are involved to a decent % (even if it's 5% with another 5 - 10% knowing about it that's insane). Spent years seeing the world as a terrible place and still do but am not actively looking into it the last year or so. Mass surveillance is BIG. Corporations do it, government, random foreign governments, hackers for syndicates, lone hackers, it's everywhere man.

Looking at nuke footage and thinking about any apocolyptic scenario semi-regularly with earnest expectation. Small scale horrors that can be local like rioting and the fall of civility as well.

I guess there's more. I'll remember later.

 

[Deleted member 39746]

"training,"

What is Training? Training implies an event, unless you have an event you arent training. Practise seems to fit the best for most of this, you cant train for anevent, 24/7 as you will burn yourself out, its why you see people blitz say 2 months before some form of competition, chill down for recovery, blitz again for the next competiton rinse and repeat. If you know an event is happening in 2 weels, you can plan your time accordinly if you are preparing for something like getting accosted in the street, you cant burn yourself out with a wrist injury as you could be accosted with said injury. (and more likely to be)

No idea if that fits context, but the usage of words is always intresting.

 

[_Simon_]

"How have YOU conquered fear and trained for a true life and death struggle?"
I lived for years in fear and treating things not life and death as life and death.
Imagined for years that there was someone around every corner so would check with my balance and footing adjusted with flashes of weapons flying towards my eye or torso sort of flash-blinding my mind from mental sensitivity due to exhaustion and heightened sense imagination if it's close range or someone stepping out or hiding in shadows, or animals in places or charging me and in all this tensing the body in the ready for the counter with adrenaline and somesuch pumping and getting viscerally aggressive.

Imagined my chair would break and the splintered wood would jam into my body and organs; always kept aware of center of balance and weight distribution and kept feet on the ground and or arms positioned a certain way; or kept my body dense by some process I can't explain but let's me shrug off hits to torso and has a certain sensation associated with it so I can manage to do it; not entirely consistent but would stressfully go back to keeping balance or dense very frequently. I think the dense feeling was the organs being positioned right, muscles in a strong state, and internal pressure consistence.

Performed physical challenges with no preparation. This might be more misery. I exercise with fear of destroying my body and fear of snapping my neck when doing handstands though, and deal with and conquer it.

Take conspiracy theories seriously and still don't believe the world is a safe place and that there's no way to verify if what is considered true (common narrative) is true, or that conspiracy theories are false. Equal possibility and I believe many things are generally true like that p. Edo is absolutely prevalent and executives and our shoguns are involved to a decent % (even if it's 5% with another 5 - 10% knowing about it that's insane). Spent years seeing the world as a terrible place and still do but am not actively looking into it the last year or so. Mass surveillance is BIG. Corporations do it, government, random foreign governments, hackers for syndicates, lone hackers, it's everywhere man.

Looking at nuke footage and thinking about any apocolyptic scenario semi-regularly with earnest expectation. Small scale horrors that can be local like rioting and the fall of civility as well.

I guess there's more. I'll remember later.

This is all... interesting... and I don't want to assume anything..... but it feels like there are some real psychological uh, stuff there.. I may be wrong, but that does sound like some heavy anxiety.. certainly don't have to speak on this I'd you don't want to.

If there isn't, can I ask fellow traveller... if this was a conscious intention, why did you undergo and reinforce these fear/paranoia patterns?

 

[Diagen]

This is all... interesting... and I don't want to assume anything..... but it feels like there are some real psychological uh, stuff there.. I may be wrong, but that does sound like some heavy anxiety.. certainly don't have to speak on this I'd you don't want to.

If there isn't, can I ask fellow traveller... if this was a conscious intention, why did you undergo and reinforce these fear/paranoia patterns?

It's by choice. I don't have to think about any of it. I've stopped mostly because I'd like to socialize and am feeling pretty good.

I reinforced these paranoia patterns because of the benefits. I'm pretty strong emotionally and mentally, as well as physically. Some of the more severe and immediate fears like neck snapping I just deal with by tensing my neck and being more focused, then shut it out. If I didn't want to think of that stuff at all I could but I don't see the point. Might as well tense my neck up and shut it out while there's underlying awareness of the danger. To live with fear is to not be unaware and complacent.

There's other negative emotions so just one negative emotion/ mental state isn't too bad. I think of it as training stimulus or active engagement emotionally and mentally with reality.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You admit that in this conversation you have made claims I have generally refuted

You haven't refuted them, just denied them.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I lived for years in fear and treating things not life and death as life and death.

If this is true, it is not healthy.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Training implies an event,

Does it?

 

[Diagen]

You haven't refuted them, just denied them.

I guess I haven't.

If this is true, it is not healthy.

How the hell does simulation of the real thing not prepare you for it? You spar and it prepares you for competition fights. Sparring can prepare you for street fights as well. In terms of conquering fear, how does the existence of it not present the opportunity to conquer it? Your training schedule prepares you to train, your training prepares you for many physical tasks such as fighting.

So thinking about how you could die from lack of awareness then exercising that awareness will definitely improve it. Recognizing that training leaves you WEAK and then getting your endurance, mind, strength back to 100% as quick as possible by actively willfully recovering your strength is stressful and makes you Strong. It's unhealthy to join the army as well. I don't put myself through constant hell now but there were (recent and not so recent) years that I did. It created difficulty in my life. That's fine. I am not unhealthy though.

I know what I'm talking about.

 

[Holmejr]

Am I the only one that has a hard time finding serious martial artists to train with locally? Our kids class is booming but it is far from an actual martial arts program and more of a martial arts inspired youth fitness program. I only run that program to keep my doors open so I can train seriously with older teens and adults but as time goes on I find fewer teens/adults that actually want to train in a real martial art. As soon as training get physically demanding the adults don't want to keep going or they don't put in any effort. When sparring and working partner drills they don't want to have any resistance or contact and just sort of half *** everything. It's like all they want is a social club and to say they "do krotee", any training is just an afterthought. Anybody else experience this?

It’s not just Martial Arts, it’s anything folks get into. In a typical MA school, how hard is it to find a student that stays a year, let alone 5 years for black belt. You want hard training, but that narrows the field to about 1 in a Zillion. The vast majority of people just don’t care enough or don’t see the need to take it to that level. Not sure where you live, but maybe there is a top flight MMA school near you. In OC Cali there are plenty of high level schools to get my *** kicked. In our school we play as hard as possible without seriously hurting each other, but because we attempt to train with intent, we stay a pretty small group, training at my instructors home. Haha, maybe we could find more students if we gave away free “Be kind” t-shirts with every membership.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I guess I haven't.

How the hell does simulation of the real thing not prepare you for it?

Because its a simulation. But then there is no "safe" way to do it otherwise.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Am I the only one that has a hard time finding serious martial artists to train with locally? Our kids class is booming but it is far from an actual martial arts program and more of a martial arts inspired youth fitness program. I only run that program to keep my doors open so I can train seriously with older teens and adults but as time goes on I find fewer teens/adults that actually want to train in a real martial art. As soon as training get physically demanding the adults don't want to keep going or they don't put in any effort. When sparring and working partner drills they don't want to have any resistance or contact and just sort of half *** everything. It's like all they want is a social club and to say they "do krotee", any training is just an afterthought. Anybody else experience this?

I don't understand the term in this context. I drag my tired old body into the dojo twice a week to teach and train. I get value from it or I would not do it. Some of my fellow students are there for other reasons than I am. Which of us is serious and which of us are not?

 

[Diagen]

Because its a simulation. But then there is no "safe" way to do it otherwise.

Right. There's not much alternative. You can break it down to the physical, the mental, the emotional, the rational, and the social, and you will have to work with what you got.