lack of serious martial artists

[drop bear]

I think the issue is how you mix exceptional students with mediocre ones. So they both get the benifit of training.

And to do that there needs to be enough flexibility in class for students to develop their own game. While having an idea of the importance of basics.

Our fighters train with everyone else. Always have. And it is a system that works.

So for example our fighters do a drill called a shark tank. Which is one fresh guy in each minute.

This gives the fighters who are super conditioned kill machines a chance to be pushed while not requiring every other monkey to be in top physical shape.

 

[drop bear]

because he has forgotten much of the prequisite curriculum and we have to slow drills down for him or spend time catching him back up.

And this might be an issue. We don't really do prerequisite curriculum.

You are either bad at it or good at it.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I have a long time student that attends regularly for months at a time and then drops out for one reason or another. I understand this, life happens. The main problem is that he has bad retention of material yet he qualified for dan at one point. When he pops back up again, he's very disruptive to the other black belt students because he has forgotten much of the prequisite curriculum and we have to slow drills down for him or spend time catching him back up.

He is a good guy, but definitely is a drain. It is what it is, short of driving him off or having him work in the beginner/intermediate classes until he gets back to speed.

I'd argue he shouldn't be training with them if he can't keep up. If he's not training regularly, there's no reason he can't train with lower ranks, where he's more likely to be able to keep up. The needs of the many, and all that.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

And this might be an issue. We don't really do prerequisite curriculum.

You are either bad at it or good at it.

I think it mostly amounts to the same thing. I have prerequisite curriculum - it's mostly stuff that creates the foundation for more complex (or sometimes subtler) stuff. If you lose your grip on the prerequisite stuff, you won't be any good on the "stuff" it's prerequisite for. If we think of it in terms of rank (where rank at least implies competence at what's being trained), their capability falls to that of a lower rank. So if a BJJ purple belt gets out of practice enough to lose their grip on some of their guard passes and such, they could lose enough to look like a blue belt. And probably ought to be training like a blue belt, rather than being in a group working on stuff that needs purple belt-level skill to keep up.

 

[drop bear]

I think it mostly amounts to the same thing. I have prerequisite curriculum - it's mostly stuff that creates the foundation for more complex (or sometimes subtler) stuff. If you lose your grip on the prerequisite stuff, you won't be any good on the "stuff" it's prerequisite for. If we think of it in terms of rank (where rank at least implies competence at what's being trained), their capability falls to that of a lower rank. So if a BJJ purple belt gets out of practice enough to lose their grip on some of their guard passes and such, they could lose enough to look like a blue belt. And probably ought to be training like a blue belt, rather than being in a group working on stuff that needs purple belt-level skill to keep up.

Yeah but that doesn't for example effect the purple belt.

 

[dunc]

In my place we always have mixed ability classes. And in normal times we change training partners regularly so everyone gets a chance to train with folk of different abilities, sizes etc
When the black belts pair up with the white belts they learn from teaching and helping the beginners. When the black belts pair up with other black belts they learn from exchanging with their peers. When the white belts pair with white belts they learn from figuring it out together & if they get stuck I help them with the fundamental point of the technique so they learn even if it’s a more advanced movement

In the BJJ academy where I train we have some beginners classes but after that its mixed ability. World champion black belts can learn when training with blue belts by putting themselves in bad places and working their way out or by tapping them every 15 seconds. The blue belts get tips and points of detail that are gold dust for their development

I think it’s all about how you, as the instructor, create a culture of continuous learning by showing folk how to look for the opportunities to learn from any situation. When people understand this have a lot more longevity to their development and it spills over into all parts of their lives (which is far more useful than the MA context)

 

[J. Pickard]

The way you describe the problem here, they sound uninspired, and maybe bored. I might be off, but consider what they are working on at that point in their training. Does it get more technical and less physical at that point? Is there a sharp drop-off in new stuff to work on? Are they spending too much time working on what the lower belts need, so they're not getting to work on what they need to progress?

It's actually quite the opposite. While we do get more technical, the classes get much more physical as you increase in rank.

Honestly, and I'm sorry if this offends as that's not my intention, I think you would benefit from asking yourself what you might do differently
In my direct experience there is no shortage of 16-35 year olds who want to push themselves and get better at martial arts. So if you feel that none of them are in your class, then perhaps the reason is closer to home

No offense taken. Introspective looks are always useful. I'm starting to think geographic location may be part of it; the majority of jobs in my area are manual labor/factory jobs that run 50-60 hour work weeks so maybe people are just too worn out . Even teens in my area are working pretty labor intensive jobs from what I've gathered and the older teens and adult that I do have training either focus purely on school and don't work or have an office job/self employed. So if that is the case, I need to figure out a way to test it to be sure and then find a way to overcome it.

 

[Diagen]

Imagine every fight or spar is life or death. How do you train?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Yeah but that doesn't for example effect the purple belt.

Doesn't it? If training is tailored to individual levels, then training at a level above where you are isn't really ideal. To take the extreme, tossing a white belt into a class of BJJ black belts working on stuff you need that kind of skill and understanding to get much from (perhaps more technical guard passes), that white belt will almost certainly learn less than if one of those black belts was working with them at an appropriate level for the white belt. The same would be true - at less of an extreme - for the purple belt who isn't able to perform at purple belt level. They'd be better served training at the level they currently are.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Imagine every fight or spar is life or death. How do you train?

In constant fear?

 

[Diagen]

In constant fear?

Yes, and now imagine you have 1 year to train and there's a life or death battle after 1 year. How do you train. What do you train. Any ideas?

 

[Yokozuna514]

It's actually quite the opposite. While we do get more technical, the classes get much more physical as you increase in rank.

No offense taken. Introspective looks are always useful. I'm starting to think geographic location may be part of it; the majority of jobs in my area are manual labor/factory jobs that run 50-60 hour work weeks so maybe people are just too worn out . Even teens in my area are working pretty labor intensive jobs from what I've gathered and the older teens and adult that I do have training either focus purely on school and don't work or have an office job/self employed. So if that is the case, I need to figure out a way to test it to be sure and then find a way to overcome it.

It is certainly something to look at but it has been my experience that the body gets used to the workload it is given. If your students are working manual labour jobs 50 to 60 hours a week and STILL want to train in something they know is physically demanding, then the spark to learn is there. As you are taking the time for introspection may I suggest you record a few of your classes for you to review afterwards. If you can aim the camera at your students, you may pick up the moments when your energy 'dumps'. That may the place for you to look on improving so that the effect you are looking to create is encouraged instead of 'groaned at'.

I recently had an opportunity to teach with another BB in a class I normally lead. As she was a higher rank, I stepped back and let her lead. She's a great instructor and is much closer in age to the students. During a particular physical section of the class, as she was explaining the rules of the 'competition', more than a few students asked her if it was going to be an 'elimination' competition (ie: 1 winner at the end). It wasn't and the class went on but it occurred to me that most of the 'competitions' I use are probably 'elimination' based. I do this for a number or reasons (mostly to inject some fun competition in pushing oneself to complete a series of movements or tasks that are repetitious) but I now wonder if I do it too much. I think this class responds well to this type of stimuli but it may be considered to be too 'much' fun. I blame Mr. Myagi and his infernal approach to teaching without seemingly teaching. All of this to say, introspection is a good way to improve oneself if that is something one wishes to do. Good luck and keep us posted.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Yes, and now imagine you have 1 year to train and there's a life or death battle after 1 year. How do you train. What do you train. Any ideas?

My point was that training in constant fear isn't terribly effective. Stress doesn't enhance the brain's capacity to learn. We need stress (and perhaps even some fear) at times in our training, but if every sparring session were life-or-death, then the wise choice would be to avoid them.

 

[drop bear]

My point was that training in constant fear isn't terribly effective. Stress doesn't enhance the brain's capacity to learn. We need stress (and perhaps even some fear) at times in our training, but if every sparring session were life-or-death, then the wise choice would be to avoid them.

Yeah. But on the flip side training with an end goal that is serious. Creates that discipline and work ethic.

 

[Diagen]

My point was that training in constant fear isn't terribly effective. Stress doesn't enhance the brain's capacity to learn. We need stress (and perhaps even some fear) at times in our training, but if every sparring session were life-or-death, then the wise choice would be to avoid them.

But conquering fear is naturally what a martial artist should do.

Yeah. But on the flip side training with an end goal that is serious. Creates that discipline and work ethic.

Yes and while thinking about how to overcome the problem, one does not waste time on useless ideas and begins to conquer fear and monumental pressure.

 

[Tez3]

But conquering fear is naturally what a martial artist should do.


Yes and while thinking about how to overcome the problem, one does not waste time on useless ideas and begins to conquer fear and monumental pressure.

Sounds like something a screenwriter has a character in a drama saying. Fear doesn't have to be a negative, you can use it and still not sound like a video game 'soldier'.

 

[Diagen]

Sounds like something a screenwriter has a character in a drama saying. Fear doesn't have to be a negative, you can use it and still not sound like a video game 'soldier'.

lol why are you afraid of being made fun of in your own head or online for talking about conquering fear? Are you afraid of relating to it, does that make you vulnerable?

 

[Diagen]

"Blink without blinking." "Conquer fear without conquering fear." Have some pride. Don't let others humiliate you, don't let people say you haven't conquered anything. It is what it is.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

But conquering fear is naturally what a martial artist should do.

Sure, but that's not at all what your post suggested doing.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

"Blink without blinking." "Conquer fear without conquering fear." Have some pride. Don't let others humiliate you, don't let people say you haven't conquered anything. It is what it is.

Is that supposed to seem deep? I'm not sure what this post is even about.