A serious question to adept martial artists about physical fitness...

[Zombocalypse]

A serious question to adept martial artists about physical fitness...



I'll just be blunt with it. But please don't think I'm trolling. I am being sincere here and I am honestly curious.

Why do martial artists in general (emphasis IN GENERAL), traditional or MMA, know so little about the science of strength and conditioning?

I'll give you an example... Many many months ago, either here or in another martial arts forum, I saw a very classic, very uneducated response with regards to me commenting about certain martial artists in a youtube video having great physiques. I said that I thought they have great physiques, and I got this sort of response:

"Martial arts training builds a lean, functional physique as opposed to useless bulky muscles."

Any person experienced enough in the field of physical fitness would tell you how uneducated and amateurish such a comment is. I know, because I'm one of them. I was a competitive powerlifter back in my teens and have never struggled with matters of strength training.

But often, both on TV and the internet, I see dozens upon dozens of strength and conditioning coaches employing stupid approaches to their athletes.

Why is this? Is martial arts so skill-oriented that even with absolute shitty strength and conditioning, skilled martial artists would still dominate?

Your thoughts are appreciated. And also, I'm not trolling (ignore my avatar). I'm just really curious about this.

 

[drop bear]

I dont agree with your premis so much.

Of course as a side to that with MMA specifically there are weight classes. So with huge muscles you fight a guy with a fundamentally bigger frame. Who is then not as likley to fatigue.

So you look at a guy like nick diaz. Who also does triathlons. And is in great physical shape but not exactly massively built.

On the streets. Bigger is usually better.

 

[Zombocalypse]

I dont agree with your premis so much.

Of course as a side to that with MMA specifically there are weight classes. So with huge muscles you fight a guy with a fundamentally bigger frame. Who is then not as likley to fatigue.

On the streets. Bigger is usually better.

I don't understand what you're saying at all...

 

[drop bear]

I don't understand what you're saying at all...

Big guys gas out more quickly.

 

[Zombocalypse]

Big guys gas out more quickly.

I know that. But it doesn't change the fact that lots of martial artists are ignorant with training for physical fitness. A good example is Buakaw and his camp. Instead of doing beneficial barbell squats, he replaces them with machine squats. And his stupid-*** trainers made him do planks, which is as useful as a bikini in the winter time.

 

[drop bear]

I know that. But it doesn't change the fact that lots of martial artists are ignorant with training for physical fitness. A good example is Buakaw and his camp. Instead of doing beneficial barbell squats, he replaces them with machine squats. And his stupid-*** trainers made him do planks, which is as useful as a bikini in the winter time.

Does Buakaw suffer from not being physical enough in fights?

Is this a form over function debate?

 

[drop bear]

This is like the handweights debate.

The argument is scientifically handweights dont do much at all for boxers.

The counter argument is Tripple g does them.

 

[Zombocalypse]

This is like the handweights debate.

The argument is scientifically handweights dont do much at all for boxers.

The counter argument is Tripple g does them.

That's bad logic. Saying that X is good because Badass Joe does it is like saying you'll achieve Arnold Schwarzenegger's (prime) physique by doing Arnold Schwarzenegger's exact training routine.

It doesn't work that way.

There are exceptions to the rules. Golovkin is one of these exceptions.

A vast majority of boxers would benefit more from direct shoulder work bodybuilding style than swinging light dumbbells in the air. The carryover is strong enough that despite the lack of specificity in training, it will still be greatly beneficial.

 

[drop bear]

That's bad logic. Saying that X is good because Badass Joe does it is like saying you'll achieve Arnold Schwarzenegger's (prime) physique by doing Arnold Schwarzenegger's exact training routine.

It doesn't work that way.

There are exceptions to the rules. Golovkin is one of these exceptions.

A vast majority of boxers would benefit more from direct shoulder work bodybuilding style than swinging light dumbbells in the air. The carryover is strong enough that despite the lack of specificity in training, it will still be greatly beneficial.

Well it is also bad logic to say Arnold is doing it wrong without evidence of doing it right.

Or buakaw or golovkin.

If it is hard then it is doing something.

 

[hoshin1600]

Perhaps you don't know as much as you think you do.

 

[Zombocalypse]

Perhaps you don't know as much as you think you do.

Possible. But I contend that I'd make a better strength and conditioning coach than A LOT (and I do mean A LOT) of MMA coaches out there. My expertise has the foundation of theoretical knowledge plus practical experience. Like I said, I was a competitve powerlifter as a teen. I have, with very minimal training, have achieved a 405-pound Olympic style, pause-at-the-bottom squat. If I took this strength coaching thing seriously, I'd make it big. I know I can. It's just that I don't have the work ethic for it.

Let us please not question my credentials and just focus on the topic at hand, which is: Why are many MMA strength and conditioning coaches so ignorant?

 

[MA_Student]

Because it's martial arts not a fitness gym. As long as you work hard and get a good sweat on who cares about the science of fitness I'm there to train martial arts. No I know barely anything about sport science but I know how to work out just fine

 

[MA_Student]

Possible. But I contend that I'd make a better strength and conditioning coach than A LOT (and I do mean A LOT) of MMA coaches out there. My expertise has the foundation of theoretical knowledge plus practical experience. Like I said, I was a competitve powerlifter as a teen. I have, with very minimal training, have achieved a 405-pound Olympic style, pause-at-the-bottom squat. If I took this strength coaching thing seriously, I'd make it big. I know I can. It's just that I don't have the work ethic for it.

Let us please not question my credentials and just focus on the topic at hand, which is: Why are many MMA strength and conditioning coaches so ignorant?

Yeah fine you're a powerlifter good for you doesn't mean you a thing about martial arts. Weight lifting doesn't make you good at martial arts at all. Your 405 pound Olympic squat means absoloutely nothing in the martial arts and wouldn't help you at all in a fight.

 

[Zombocalypse]

Because it's martial arts not a fitness gym. As long as you work hard and get a good sweat on who cares about the science of fitness I'm there to train martial arts. No I know barely anything about sport science but I low how to work out just fine

This is actually a good answer. lol. Thanks.

 

[Zombocalypse]

Yeah fine you're a powerlifter good for you doesn't mean you a thing about martial arts. Weight lifting doesn't make you good at martial arts at all. Your 405 pound Olympic squat means absoloutely nothing in the martial arts and wouldn't help you at all in a fight.

This is debatable. If two martial artists with the same bodyweight and build and height were tested for the power of, let's say their spinning back kick, and these two martial artists are equally adept at spinning back kick technique, the stronger martial artist will hit harder. That's an unmistakable fact.

Strength plays a role in martial arts. That's why MMA has weight divisions. Bigger guys have the strength advantage.

 

[hoshin1600]

Possible. But I contend that I'd make a better strength and conditioning coach than A LOT (and I do mean A LOT) of MMA coaches out there. My expertise has the foundation of theoretical knowledge plus practical experience. Like I said, I was a competitve powerlifter as a teen. I have, with very minimal training, have achieved a 405-pound Olympic style, pause-at-the-bottom squat. If I took this strength coaching thing seriously, I'd make it big. I know I can. It's just that I don't have the work ethic for it.

Let us please not question my credentials and just focus on the topic at hand, which is: Why are many MMA strength and conditioning coaches so ignorant?

Ok how about you don't know as much as you think you do.
If you think you would be so good at it, go and do it and stop
Whining about it.
How about this..since your complaining about deep squats, what happens when you have millions of dollars on the line and your athlete injures himself due to your inexperience having him do power squats

 

[Zombocalypse]

Ok how about you don't know as much as you think you do.
If you think you would be so good at it, go and do it and stop
Whining about it.
How about this..since your complaining about deep squats, what happens when you have millions of dollars on the line and your athlete injures himself due to your inexperience having him do power squats

Wait, what are you talking about? Who's complaining about deep squats? I LOVE deep squats. They're a staple in my training.

By power squats you meant wide-stance and low position on your back, right? I used to do them back in high school. Now not anymore. Good exercise for the posterior chain but I don't do them now.

I have a little experience coaching others. And I was damn good at it.

But enough about me please. Let's talk about martial artists and why a lot of them seem to have great ignorance with strength training...

 

[hoshin1600]

Wait, what are you talking about? Who's complaining about deep squats? I LOVE deep squats. They're a staple in my training.

By power squats you meant wide-stance and low position on your back, right? I used to do them back in high school. Now not anymore. Good exercise for the posterior chain but I don't do them now.

I have a little experience coaching others. And I was damn good at it.

But enough about me please. Let's talk about martial artists and why a lot of them seem to have great ignorance with strength training...

But that's where your not getting it, it is all about you. Your making a claim of others ignorance without understanding your own. The fact that you are asking a question infers the assumption that you don't know,,,thus are ignorant.
But of course the juxtapose position would be that you feel you do know and are not really asking a question but rather making a derogatory rhetorical statement....which is trolling.
Assuming for a second your not trolling, your question is why the world does things that you think are stupid. If that is the basis of your question then you need to look in the mirror and answer that one for yourself. There is no use in asking us.
Now if you want to rephrase your question and delve into specifics I'm sure some of us could be of some help.

 

[Zombocalypse]

But that's where your not getting it, it is all about you. Your making a claim of others ignorance without understanding your own. The fact that you are asking a question infers the assumption that you don't know,,,thus are ignorant.
But of course the juxtapose position would be that you feel you do know and are not really asking a question but rather making a derogatory rhetorical statement....which is trolling.
Assuming for a second your not trolling, your question is why the world does things that you think are stupid. If that is the basis of your question then you need to look in the mirror and answer that one for yourself. There is no use in asking us.
Now if you want to rephrase your question and delve into specifics I'm sure some of us could be of some help.

My original question is this...

Why do martial artists in general (emphasis IN GENERAL), traditional or MMA, know so little about the science of strength and conditioning?

I understand that this question of mine has certain implications within it. It is this one: I think I know better than you...

Here's the thing...

Let's be real here. I have experience and knowledge. I've been in and out of the world of iron and bodybuilding and powerlifting and weightlifting. I've seen stuff and experienced stuff. I know what works and what doesn't. I've done every workout imaginable. I'm 26 years old after all. I'm not that old, but I'm old enough to know stuff. I think you should give me some merit.

It is my opinion that a lot (not all) of martial artists and their trainers have it wrong when it comes to strength training. They have them do kettlebells instead of barbells, and pink weights instead of kettlebells. They do workouts that has zero carryover to their chosen sport, do marathon running instead of the more appropriate sprints (or other workouts that tax the same "energy system".), and skip squats and deadlifts in favor of CURLS!

Those things I mentioned are blatantly stupid regardless of what sport you are training for. Maybe there are exceptions, like arm wrestling where curls are a priority. But for the vast majority of a lot of martial artists, they have it wrong...

The pinnacle of strength training is barbell lifting. And I am a man who specializes in that...

 

[JR 137]

In one breath you’re saying “don’t make it about me.” In another breath you’re saying “I could do so much better.”

Do you see the paradox here? You can’t have it both ways.

There’s misinformed people in every facet of life. MA training is no different. And you’re judging by what you see in videos, read in blogs, etc. That’s only a small snapshot of the entire thing.

Many people are misinformed. Even professional athletes. My theory is they’re truly misinformed and doing the wrong thing, yet they’re still successful, then they’re successful despite the misinformation and not because of it. But again, seeing one or a couple things they’re doing “wrong” doesn’t mean they’re doing everything wrong. Just because that boxer punches with weights in his hands doesn’t mean he doesn’t do anything else nor does it mean everything else he does is wrong. It’s ONE thing in his training, not his entire training.