Kosho Shorei Ryu Kempo

[The Kai]

I learned a Kata called Karumpha that seems to be similiar to Neko Buto #1 in Kosho - I don't have access to kajukenbo could they be the same/ (Twards the end of the form you drop into a kneel stance and deliver a reverse punch.)

Just curious
Todd

 

[Karazenpo]

I learned a Kata called Karumpha that seems to be similiar to Neko Buto #1 in Kosho - I don't have access to kajukenbo could they be the same/ (Twards the end of the form you drop into a kneel stance and deliver a reverse punch.)

Just curious
Todd

No Todd, I'll give a quick review of Palama set#1. Using the clock principle: Facing 12 you do your opening salutation. Step back toward 6 with a right outward block (closed hand), step back left downward block, step back w/ right inward block.(footwork is right, left, right) Turn toward 9 (clockwise) with an overhead open hand cross block and then toward 3 (counter-clockwise) with the same cross block. Fist over fist on your left side, face 12 and step in punch (horizontal fist) with the left hand with a simultaneous outward close hand block with the right. Step in right roundhouse elbow to 12 then turn toward 6 with a left hand closed outward block. Step in (12) with a right willow palm to side of opponent's head into a right hammerfist to groin back up into a right backfist to face. Step through facing 12 and close out the form. I don't see any movements from the 'cat family' in this form. I have never seen Neku Buto so I can't compare.

PS: Nick Cerio had a short form that he called 'Waza' (technique) that had the drop down into a kneeling stance with a reverse punch. Don't know if it had anything to do with Karumpha or not but I do know Professor Cerio exchanged knowledge with Hanshi Juchnik at one time. Could be a variation but I really don't know. Never seen Karumpha either.

 

[GAB]

Hello,
With all the information coming out about "Okinawan Martial Arts", it is interesting, many have said for quite a while, "Okinawan martial art had a large influence on the Island of Hawaii".

In fact when talking to Dr. Ted Sumner about Hanshi Bruce Juchnik earlier in the year, he stated something close to this( Juchnik is adding to much Okinawan
arts for my taste).

Maybe Hanshi Juchnik had this in mind all along, and it is finally reaching fruition? Regards, Gary

 

[BlackCatBonz]

on the subject of kata... which i know can be sensitive, the forms that students in kosho shorei ryu study arent simply forms originating from this art. We are taught from the start that our aim is to learn these forms as a way of preserving them, and to learn from them. As for all the talk of Naihanchi i hear about.....yes it is an okinawan form, but as far as i know, and everyone else i have studied with, kosho has a similar form known as Naihan no kata, but only similar to naihanchi as far as moving on a lateral enbusen. But i would see why the early practitioners would refer to naihan no as the "dance of death" because of the movements. naihanchi is hardly a dance.

 

[Doc]

P.S. hey Doc I'm still waiting.

You can tell Bruce I said wasup for me.

 

[kelly keltner]

Geez Doc Where ya been?
kelz

 

[Randy Strausbaugh]

Never seen Karumpha either.

Could this be related to the Goju-ryu kata Kururunfa? Seems that the names are too similar to be a coincidence. Just a guess on my part, could be wrong. Been known to happen.

 

[The Kai]

Karaumpha could be a mis spelling of a different form? It's what my teacher called it so..........

 

[GAB]

Hi,
Talking about the misprint of words, it happens all the time and then down the road someone checks it out and it is a misprint. Maybe it happened here like some have said, whether it was the first or the last certificate, if it is printed it has one hump if it is cursive it has two humps and the m has three humps.

Or the v vs the w when in actuality it is two U's which makes it a double U.
I think that is one of the reasons it is diffucult for everyone (or anyone) to master the english, whether its, cursive or printed. Cursive should be only taught in the upper grades if someone even wants it, times have changed.

The Chinese shortened the amount of Characters in the elementary schools we should shorten up on the cursive part of writing (what ever happened to the 3 R's) I guess that was pretty simplistic? I see on quite a few of the posts various educated (college and up) really get hung up on their eloquence of words and themselves.
I have not been to school in a very long time, do they write in cursive any more or is it typed or printed? What has happened to the cursive writing in America. This is probably a simplistic way of looking at it, are there any school teachers or professors in college who can answer this question?

Considering the various cultures and the different ways of pronunciation, I think it is a very good way to look at it, as small as the world is getting, it is time for the universal language and 3 R's.

I look at it in regards to Ken/mpo, Mitose had forms and tech's, Chow had tech's, Parker has tech's and forms, but Tracy really has a lot of tech's and forms.

Now the big question, how many forms and tech's are in Kajukenbo and how many are in Kosho Ryu? Did it start out as Kajukenpo or has it always be Kajukenbo? When was it changed? Or was it changed? I can remember when that was discussed (long ago and a faraway time).

Do we need a new thread for this question?

We can look at it like a language, if you say it one way (tech's) or you say it another (forms) or you say it another (forms and tech's), pretty simplistic?

The Filipino's have many styles (systems) yet they use the same tools in the art, do they argue about the way it is spelled?

Here we are in this system arguing about the one letter M or N. How about the letter P or B, is that worthy of discussion?

Regards, Gary

 

[John Bishop]

Hi,
Did it start out as Kajukenpo or has it always be Kajukenbo? When was it changed? Or was it changed? I can remember when that was discussed (long ago and a faraway time).
Regards, Gary

Quick answer, and then we can get back on topic.
"Kajukenbo" is the original and correct spelling. "Kajukenpo" is a off shoot of "Kajukenbo" that was founded by Algene Caraulia in the early seventies. It is primarily practiced in the Ohio area.
"Kajukembo" is a spelling that the "Kajukembo Self Defense Systems/American Kajukembo Association" uses for their schools. This group started by Don Nahoolewa and Richard Peralta uses the "M" in the spelling to recoginize James Mitose as the founder of Kenpo in Hawaii. (The "M" is for Mitose, not because the word "Kenpo" is supposed to be spelled with a "M".)

 

[GAB]

Hello Sigung:

Thank you, for the quick information. I was running that through my head the other day, thought I would just run that by you. Regards,Gary

 

[The Kai]

I actually started in KaJukenpo (downline from Algene Carulia), It is not like KaJukenBo from what I have seen.

 

[GAB]

Hi, I started out in the ring when I was about ten years old and had to fight every weekend because I would get in trouble during the week.
My brother and I were sent to a home for youths, we were there for a year when our parents were having diffuculties. The Smother Bros. were there also, this was back in the early fifties, they were older and we did not see them much.

I have never been far from that mentality of fighting for what you thought was right. I have never let down. Whether in the ring, street, Marine Corps or as a LEO. It is in my blood and that is a fact. One of the reasons I liked/like Kajukenbo so much, it was/is rough and tumble, hard and fast. I am doing FMA at the present, easier on the bod.

As I get older I think about the spiritual side, but the hard fighting and sticking up for the underdog, or putting the bad guys in jail, it is in my blood.
Really weird, I guess I watched to much Hopalong Cassidy as a kid, or read to many Zane Grey and Mike Hammer novels, in between days weeks and years of fighting.

If you were to talk to me and not know my back ground, as a lot of people have said, Gary, you are such a nice guy, you really must have a dark side,
I just chuckle...

Regards, Gary

 

[BlackCatBonz]

i was just wondering if gary or kel could clear something up for me.......
i was told....and i could be wrong......that mitose sensei taught the Nai Han No kata, not the NaiHanchi kata back then......and that nai han no was a mitose family form. i havent seen hanshi in awhile so i havent been able to pick his brain. the nai han no kata was more akin to a dance than naihanchi.

shawn

 

[kelly keltner]

Naihan no is the Mitose version of Naihanchi. If asked I would have to say it's more dancelike than Naihanchi. Hanshi is leaving today for a seminar at Jeff Driscoll's I believe. I will ask him next week.
kelly

 

[KenpoDave]

i was just wondering if gary or kel could clear something up for me.......
i was told....and i could be wrong......that mitose sensei taught the Nai Han No kata, not the NaiHanchi kata back then......and that nai han no was a mitose family form. i havent seen hanshi in awhile so i havent been able to pick his brain. the nai han no kata was more akin to a dance than naihanchi.

shawn

According to a letter that I have from Thomas Young, Mitose taught Naihanchi.

 

[BlackCatBonz]

According to a letter that I have from Thomas Young, Mitose taught Naihanchi.

i know people have letters and trinkets and relics, but it has been known that one tiny misprint or mistaken word can cause a whole world confusion.
but as i have said previously, the naihanchi kata is hardly dance like. and unless you practice Nai Han No, you wouldnt know.

shawn

 

[GAB]

Hi Shawn,

It is interesting to see that a lot of the hidden arts were handed down through the guise of dancing or festive occasion. It is in FMA and the Okinawan tradition, when the weapons were taken away they went to something else.

In the book of "Five Rings" MM as he gets older starts using the wooden sword or a boat oar to fight. It was quicker and he was older, (probabley would work to day) Staff vs the Sword both made out of a lighter weight metal.

Just a thought. Regards, Gary

 

[kelly keltner]

I had a talk with Hanshi last night he said he could not say for sure if Mitose actually taught Naihan No in Hawaii.

Kelly

 

[kelly keltner]

Hi Kelly, where did you hear that the Neko Buto kata was taught to Robert Trias by James Mitose? I have corresponded with Dr. Roberta Trias-Kelley and she did confirm a relationship of her father with Mitose back in those early years. However, Shihan Mike Brown told me that it was Robert Trias who taught Mitose Naihanchi but now it seems it also could have been Nabura Tanamaha. Man, it gets confusing, doesn't it? Just when you think you have the answer, another plausible alternative comes up.

Here comes some more info. Sorry I haven't been posting on the portion of the topic dealing with the topic of Neko Buto's, but I found some info last night while helping Hanshi Juchnik organize some of his files. we came across a letter from Robert Trias with a diagram of the Junni-ippo Kata. The letter stated that around the same time he(Trias) was showing Mitose Junni- ippo kata. Mitose was developing the Neko buto forms. The Neko Buto's were forms that used attributes from the form Karumpha and Naihanchi katas.

kelly