Kosho Shorei Ryu Kempo / Bruce Juchnik

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higginj33

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Hello,

I have been lurking here for a while, and I am hopeful that someone here might be able to help me to find some answers to a few questions that I have.

I am interested in studying Kenpo / Kempo, and at this point I am fairly open-minded with respect to the particular variation of the art. I am attempting to do my due dillegence, and one of the schools in my area is a Kosho Shorei Ryu Kempo school.

I am wondering about a few things regarding this style:

1). Are there any similarities between this version of Kempo versus EPAK, Tracy's, or Kajukenbo?

2). Can anyone tell me anything about Bruce Juchnik? I have heard a few things, but I haven't really been able to learn much about him by surfing the few web sites that have info on Kosho Ryu.

Any info that can be shared about Kosho Ryu or Mr. Juchnik would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.
 
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Karazenpo

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higginj33 said:
Hello,

I have been lurking here for a while, and I am hopeful that someone here might be able to help me to find some answers to a few questions that I have.

I am interested in studying Kenpo / Kempo, and at this point I am fairly open-minded with respect to the particular variation of the art. I am attempting to do my due dillegence, and one of the schools in my area is a Kosho Shorei Ryu Kempo school.

I am wondering about a few things regarding this style:

1). Are there any similarities between this version of Kempo versus EPAK, Tracy's, or Kajukenbo?

2). Can anyone tell me anything about Bruce Juchnik? I have heard a few things, but I haven't really been able to learn much about him by surfing the few web sites that have info on Kosho Ryu.

Any info that can be shared about Kosho Ryu or Mr. Juchnik would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

Hanshi Bruce Juchnik's background is in Tracy's Kenpo. He made several visits to James M. Mitose during his incarceration at Folsom Prison. I have this confirmed by the highly respected Professor Eugene Sedeno who also visited Mitose during this time. Juchnik stated that he received a Master's certificate from Mitose with the right to do with Kosho ryu what he feels best. This has been the source of much controversy in the kenpo/kempo world. It has been said how much can one learn of a particular system through several prison visits never mind become the 22nd descendant of it? If this is true and was Mitose's wishes than who's to question it. Well, Gm.Thomas Barros Mitose ( Mitose's son) states he is the keeper of the flame. He has stated his father wanted him to carry on the lineage and that his father told him he did not need a certificate stating so because he was of his blood. Sijo Adriano Emperado, founder of Kajukenbo endorses Thomas as the 22nd descendant. Emperado studied under both Professor William Kwai Sun Chow and James Mitose but considered Chow his true instructor. Gm.Thomas Mitose's background is in Kajukenbo under Gm. Joe Halbuna. I have noticed the Juchnik has adopted traditional Okinawan karate kata to his curriculum. Mitose's background does appear to be strongly influenced by Okinawan Kempo through the Motobu lineage and it is believed he studied this art in Hawaii from Naburo Tanamaha, a first or second generation Motobu student. Mitose was known to have practiced only one kata, Naihanchi Shodan (Dance of Death) although his followers do state he knew many more. This was also the favorite kata of Motobu. The Sei Kosho Shorei Kai's historian, Shihan Mike Brown (good guy) from Rhode Island stated to me directly he has documentation of Mitose's training in Japan in his family art and is the 21st descendant of that art. He also told me Mitose learned Naihanchi in Hawaii from Gm. Robert Trias. He plans to reveal all this in an upcoming book. This should prove very interesting since many believe Mitose's training in Japan was a myth. If he did have this training than perhaps he supplemented it with the Okinawan Kempo he learned in Hawaii. The jury is still out on this. Regardless, Kosho Shorei ryu is a legitimate martial art and is the forerunner or originator of all the Hawaiian derived kenpo/kempo systems we have today. This fact stands undisputed. Sensei John Evans, a personal friend of mine from New Hampshire and student of Juchnik swears by his skills and his system of Kosho Shorei ryu. I, personally, have never met him nor have I seen any of his videos. Well, I tried to provide you with an unbiased and factual account on this controversial topic, hope I succeeded! Good luck in your studies. Professor Joe Shuras
 
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higginj33

Guest
Thank you very much sir for the information. I have an appointment on Monday to investigate this school, and I will be sure to let everyone here know what the experience is like.
 
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stanley neptune

Guest
I have an early Bruce Juchnik tape and the production quality is poor but he seems to know his stuff. On the other hand the quality of Mike Brown's character and martial expertise is nothing short of top notch. He is a great guy who knows his history. His high quality character is only rivaled by his tremendous martial arts ability.

I have met Mike and observed his Kosho and I can tell you this guy is very very good. If I lived closer to RI I would train with this guy in a heartbeat.

So Higgy if your instructor is as good as Mike Brown go for it. If Mike is any indication of the instructors who are in the Kosho system that speaks highly for Kosho.

Stanley Neptune
 
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higginj33

Guest
Well Stanley,

I wish that I could report that I was blown away at the Kosho school that is near me, but unfortunately, it seemed to me that all the head instructor cared about was getting me to sign his contract. The guy acted like answering my questions was a waste of his time, and I just did not get the warm and fuzzies at all. So, I found an EPAK school that I felt much more comfortable at, and I jumped right in. I have been very happy with that decision.
 
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stanley neptune

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Higgy,

Whenever a so called instructor whips out a contract........RUN. Run the other way. Don't sign a contract to study martial arts.

There are too many other contracts in life..mortgages, auto loans, college admission, employment.....and on, and on, and on....... These are important contracts for important life events.

Not to say that MA studies are not important but the average MA contract protects the instructor more so than the student.

There are plenty of legit instructors out there that do not require a contract.

Stanley Neptune
 

Dan Anderson

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stanley neptune said:
Higgy,

Whenever a so called instructor whips out a contract........RUN. Run the other way. Don't sign a contract to study martial arts.

There are too many other contracts in life..mortgages, auto loans, college admission, employment.....and on, and on, and on....... These are important contracts for important life events.

Not to say that MA studies are not important but the average MA contract protects the instructor more so than the student.

There are plenty of legit instructors out there that do not require a contract.

Stanley Neptune

Stanley,
I must disagree with you on this one. Yes, many contracts protect the instructor more than the student. The student doesn't pay the rent, pay the insurance, pay the mortgage, pay the loans, feed the kids, stock the equipment and so on. The instructor or school owner does. The question here is does the instructor value equal exchange? If so, both benefit. If not, the student does get ripped off.

And now a question for you - martial arts isn't an important life event. Martial arts saved my life in terms of the direction I took. I would almost bet that it has played a very important part in yours as well.

Yours,
Dan Anderson
 
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Karazenpo

Guest
Dan Anderson said:
Stanley,
I must disagree with you on this one. Yes, many contracts protect the instructor more than the student. The student doesn't pay the rent, pay the insurance, pay the mortgage, pay the loans, feed the kids, stock the equipment and so on. The instructor or school owner does. The question here is does the instructor value equal exchange? If so, both benefit. If not, the student does get ripped off.

And now a question for you - martial arts isn't an important life event. Martial arts saved my life in terms of the direction I took. I would almost bet that it has played a very important part in yours as well.

Yours,
Dan Anderson

Stanley, I must agree with Dan on that one. There was a time that I was totally against contracts and gave the same asvice as you do-RUN! but iI have since pulled a 180. I'm sick and tired of chasing people for money legitimately owed to me so that I can pay my bills. It's getting to be ridiculous, late payments, no payments......people pay when they feel like it or they just happened to have 'forgotten'! I want to teach martial arts not run a collections agency. I think these days contracts are smart business and it takes a lot of stress off school owners.
 

Dan Anderson

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Karazenpo said:
Stanley, I must agree with Dan on that one. There was a time that I was totally against contracts and gave the same asvice as you do-RUN! but iI have since pulled a 180. I'm sick and tired of chasing people for money legitimately owed to me so that I can pay my bills. It's getting to be ridiculous, late payments, no payments......people pay when they feel like it or they just happened to have 'forgotten'! I want to teach martial arts not run a collections agency. I think these days contracts are smart business and it takes a lot of stress off school owners.

This is getting of the thread topic but the above is very true. Americans need to be locked into some sort of binding agreement, otherwise, they'll flip flop on bills. The so-called American work ethic has gone so far down the tubes that it has spilled over to holding up to one's obligations. I like my students. Don't get me wrong but at the same time I am not holding a charity martial arts function either. Hell, in the old days, the students used to wash the dojo floors. Now you have to chase them down for dues. (Actually - it's only about 20% but that 20% can make or break you.)

Back to the thread - Anybody have more info on Bruce? He also trained with Remy Presas back in the late 1970's.

Yours,
Dan Anderson
 

kelly keltner

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Hanshi Juchnik has studied many arts including serada escrima,modern arnis, silat, tai chi, tracy's kenpo, and hungarian sabre fighting to name just a few.
He is currently teaching in the El Dorado hills area of California.

Kelly
 

BlackCatBonz

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just a thought to ponder on the subject of mitose teaching hanshi.....

does one need to cut open a human body in order to learn anatomy?
 

Blindside

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does one need to cut open a human body in order to learn anatomy?

I would prefer my doctor to have a bit more than book learning behind him. Gray's Anatomy is great, but people's insides look alot different in color and in three dimensions.

Lamont
 
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higginj33

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kelly keltner said:
Hanshi Juchnik has studied many arts including serada escrima,modern arnis, silat, tai chi, tracy's kenpo, and hungarian sabre fighting to name just a few.
He is currently teaching in the El Dorado hills area of California.

Kelly
Hello Kelly,

Just out of curiosity, are there any other details you can share about Mr. Juckniks' training (who he trained with in the various styles listed, rank held, etc.)? I am really curious as to what rank he holds in Tracy's kenpo.

It just seems to be really tough to find much about him on the web other than blurbs similar to the info you just provided.

Thanks
 
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Karazenpo

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higginj33 said:
Hello Kelly,

Just out of curiosity, are there any other details you can share about Mr. Juckniks' training (who he trained with in the various styles listed, rank held, etc.)? I am really curious as to what rank he holds in Tracy's kenpo.

It just seems to be really tough to find much about him on the web other than blurbs similar to the info you just provided.

Thanks

I believe he holds a 3rd dan in Tracy's Kenpo.
 

kelly keltner

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The Question was put to Ted Sumner, who is one of Al Tracy's top guys. Bruce's teacher Dan Babcock became estranged from the Tracy organization so any further rank from him would not be recognized by Al Tracy.
Bruce Juchnik then received a 6th dan from Rick Alemany. I could sit here and type my fingers to nubs talkin about all the certification Hanshi Juchnik has.

kelly

I Take that back I just did a quick check of the tracy family tree on their web site Hanshi Juchnik doesn't seem to apear anywhere anymore. I could have missed it, but I don't think so. It appears it has been removed.

kelly
 

lc_78

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Hanshi Juchnik has studied many arts including serada escrima,modern arnis, silat, tai chi, tracy's kenpo, and hungarian sabre fighting to name just a few.
He is currently teaching in the El Dorado hills area of California.

Kelly

Does he still have his school in Orangevale? I had occasion to train there.
 

Kosho Gakkusei

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Juchnik Hanshi no longer operates a school full time. He dedicates most of his time to seminars and overseeing the art and the schools of his students.

_Don Flatt
 

KenpoDave

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The Question was put to Ted Sumner, who is one of Al Tracy's top guys. Bruce's teacher Dan Babcock became estranged from the Tracy organization so any further rank from him would not be recognized by Al Tracy.
Bruce Juchnik then received a 6th dan from Rick Alemany. I could sit here and type my fingers to nubs talkin about all the certification Hanshi Juchnik has.

kelly

I Take that back I just did a quick check of the tracy family tree on their web site Hanshi Juchnik doesn't seem to apear anywhere anymore. I could have missed it, but I don't think so. It appears it has been removed.

kelly

Kelly, since the Tracy Family Tree appeared on the internet some 15 years ago, I don't recall ever seeing Bruce Juchniks name on there. I don't think it has been removed.

I posed the question to some of our seniors as to why (take Ted Sumner for example) their names don't even appear until 6th black or so. Dr. Sumner iterated to me that many of the "early seniors" do not appear because Mr. Tracy no longer has those records. If Mr. Juchnik received his rank in Tracy's during the 70s or before, he is not likely on the tree that exists on the website.

Mr. Tracy does ask on the website for people whose names do not appear, to contact him with their names, instructor's names, and dates of certification.
 

kelly keltner

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Hi all

Funny thing I posted this 2-3 years ago and I just happened to log on today after not logging onto martialtalk for a long time.
Anyway, KenpoDave it could be the fact that Bruce was never on the family tree and/or I am not recalling what I may or may not have seen correctly. I thought I had seen him on it a long time ago. To the question of Bruce and his school in Orangevale Vic Hernandez was running it the last time I heard. It's been a while since I've talked to anyone in Kosho. Partially because I've become pretty busy with work and partially for personal reasons and political dissagreements with what is going on with Kosho. Either way I hope things are going well in the kai.

KK
 
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