Martial Arts E Center said:
Dont colleges have lectures and videos by the professors as part of most courses?
A few? Yes. Most? No, not even close - and physical education is not among the common choices. There are many things I would not be willing to learn on an electronic media, and martials is among those things. Like mathematics, science lab, or counseling, to give a few examples, some things need to be demonstrated in person, and immediate feedback provided, for the person to truly learn. I would include any physical skill, especially those in which improper performance could lead to injury, among those topics. A coworker of mine took an on-line class as part of her associate's degree, and disliked it intensely; she found the recorded lectures difficult to follow, and particularly disliked not being able to interact with the professor directly, as the time necessary to ask questions via email and receive responses was frustrating, and often produced responses that, while informative, did not really answer the question asked. If that was her experience with a basic English class, I cannot imagine how much worse it would be in a class requiring precise physical movements, which are often hard to ask questions about in writing, rather than through demonstration.
Martial Arts E Center said:
It has been proven that rote learners like mr. Danjo seems to be, have a hard time generalizing out from what they have been shown, making it very hard to understand conceptual ideas and principles, which keeps them stuck in their preconceived patterns.
I have been in TKD for 19 years, and I have learned a great deal from reference materials - both text and video - but every time I work out with my instructor, he provides feedback on my technique that I cannot get from individual, media-based materials. Nor could I learn from the moral components that I have gained from his instruction, and that of other seniors it has been my privilege to be instructed by, from text or electronic media. I have gained a great deal of supplementary information from media sources, but they cannot, in my opinion, replace the personal attention of a qualified instructor. I can't speak for Danjo's learning style, as I don't know him personally; for myself, however, I learned considerably more about "conceptual ideas and principles" from my instructor and other seniors than I have learned from supplemental materials, no matter the quality of those materials, because the discussions that occur in person are of much more use to me... and even the information I garner from media supplements spark questions that the supplements cannot answer, and which I take back to my instructor. That's what works for me. If your system works for others, then, kudos... but for me, I would find it to be ineffective.
Martial Arts E Center said:
When Mr Juchnik studied from Mr. Mitose, he already knew how to punch, kick, etc.... what Mr. Mitose passed on to him were principles, natural laws, etc... what is better? learning HOW to throw or just learning specific throws? I personally was shown by Mr. Juchnik the lesson Mr. Mitose showed him on folding and throwing. I found it very insightful and regard it as one of the best lessons I have ever had. He was also told to visit certain people to learn things Mr. Mitose couldn't show him there in that setting. I have never seen one person who has withnessed Mr Juchnik's demonstrations doubt his martial abilites....
So you, yourself, learned best in person; at least, that's how this reads to me. Certainly, I have used media supplementals (videos) in the fashion you describe; however, without the feedback provided by another person who has knowledge of the art and the techniques being practiced, I find it very difficult to determine if I am truly understanding the technique being demonstrated, and even more, truly knowing if I am performing it properly. This has nothing to do with the quality of the person on the video, in my opinion; for myself, simply because I can see something over and over, at varying speeds, does not mean that I can, necessarily, tell if I am performing it properly.
Martial Arts E Center said:
As for the E Lessons.... why is it so hard to understand how this could be a valuable tool? Everyday we learn from books, tapes, dvds, cds, talking, listening, etc... This is NOT meant to replace a qualified instructor! This is not for rank! This is meant to be a progressive interactive learning TOOL to teach the principles, techniques, history, etc of these arts. Also, not everyone has the geographic opportunities to study from Hanshi Juchnik. By using the internet, you can study from Hanshi no matter where you are located. When I watch Hanshi Juchnik teach a principle, I can only pick up so much of what he is actually trying to impart. By studying these lessons over and over, you are going to see things you couldn't see in a time limited class or seminar setting. What did his hips do and why? his feet? his weight distributions, etc... and... you can asking him questions about these things anytime you want, as much as you want.... We can provide you with all the information you need to learn the technical aspects of Kosho Shorei Ryu, but you still need to physically train with partners.
I looked at the referenced website; I looked at every link on the page. At no point does it say that this is a supplement to a qualified instructor; in fact, I could not find any reference to an individual instructor anywhere on the site. Perhaps, if reference to using this site as a tool, rather than in place of a qualified instructor, were visible somewhere on the site, this discussion would be somewhat different. The way the site is set up, however, it looks, to an outsider, as if the information provided on the site is all-inclusive and all a person needs to learn independently of an instructor. If I missed something stating that this is a supplement to an instructor, then please, post a link to this information, as that would, indeed, change my opinion.
Martial Arts E Center said:
As for your favorite part... the most effective Kosho Instructional Available on the Internet... While we are just starting out with Kosho E Lessons, adding new material every day, we stand behind that statement... show us another one that has so much information, is interactive, and is so cost effective, and is taught by Hanshi himself......
I cannot speak to the effectiveness or ineffectiveness of this teaching methodology, as I don't have any experience with either the method or the style... but I will say that I don't find $21.95/month particularly "cost-effective", when supplemental media can be purchased for a one-time cost, my instructor is available for questions at all classes, and additionally by phone and email, as are other seniors, as well as many qualified persons on sites such as MT, all for no additional cost. I teach TKD at a YMCA, where students pay $65/session (7 weeks). At that rate, members are receiving direct instruction at a monthly cost of just over $30 - except for those who are on scholarship, who pay anywhere from 1/4 to 1/2 of the regular cost, and some of them have difficulty paying every session, because the $25-32 they pay is a stretch for their budgets (at which point I waive the dues, generally). At that rate, I don't find internet-based instruction to be particularly cost-effective; as an additional cost on top of training dues I would find it difficult to justify.
Martial Arts E Center said:
I also find it very judgemental of Mr. Danjo to comment on these e lessons without his having tried them.... 'Contempt prior to investigation?'
As I said, for myself I would find this method to be singularly ineffective; I cannot imagine taking a martial art as an on-line class, and I cannot think, for myself, that I would find it effective as the primary method of instruction.
As far as Danjo's "contempt prior to investigation", I see no contempt in his posts; dismay and amusement, perhaps, but not contempt. I suspect you will find that many people with any experience in MA will hold similar opinions as to the potential effectiveness of your on-line program. As I said previously, if this is intended as a supplemental program, then, for those for whom it is effective, I have no problem - but if that is the case, then it needs to be made clear on your website, if only to protect your collective behinds when someone hurts themselves doing something incorrectly that they learned on-line. In today's litigious society, I see this as a definite possibility - that someone will perform a technique incorrectly and hurt either themselves or the partner they practice on - and then sue your organization for damages; waivers and disclaimers are often not much use in such situations, and lawsuits have been brought, and won, for much less.
Martial Arts E Center said:
We have been doing this for almost two years with Gracie E Lessons with great results... Why not with Kosho Kempo? Escrima?
I would interested in knowing how you determine "great results". Is it solely based on the amount of money generated by this teaching method? At any point, do these students see an instructor for feedback? Testing? Is that a requirement, or merely an option? If an option, is that option recommended? Mentioned at all? As I said, I looked through the site, and could not find such information.
In addition, I would like to say that I find it interesting that this is your first post on this site - no introduction, such as most people make, no information about your personal background - just a rather defensive post about a program someone dared not be positive and enthusiastic about.
artyon:
