Dual Martial arts advice needed: see body for details

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Addsplendor

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When looking at a club I always think that the instructor is just as important as the style. Do they look any good? Do they make up false credentials? etc. Then you can look at some videos of the style in action.

Had a quick look at the Kuntao link you posted. I'm always sceptical of any organisation that covers everything in camo..... But I'll give it the benefit of the doubt on that. That being said skimming through the head of the organisations very long list of accomplishments is a gold medal in the International Police Olympics in 1992. Should be easy enough to check right?

I can't find any reference to the International Police Olympics from a quick google. Some other events, including the World Police and Fire Games, but that happens every two years and was in 1991 and 1993.

He claims he was inducted into the Black Belt Hall of Fame in 2006. He's not in their list of 2006 inductees.

I then watch a quick video and the first thing he demonstrates is countering someone's jab by "destroying the bicep". AKA he blocks and punches their bicep at exactly the same time whilst they are mid punch. If they're teaching this kind of stuff, it's not an effective martial art. Even if you could pull it off, which is possible, if they are A LOT slower than you, or you can pre-empt it, trying to block in one direction and punch with a lot of force in the opposite direction just doesn't work from a biomechanics point of view, either you don't block hard enough and the punch still gets you in the face, or there is little power in your punch. The guy doesn't even move his body, it's all arm work. It's telling that when they drill it quickly the punch is like 2 feet from his face, it wouldn't work otherwise.


Please don't go to the Kuntao place.
Oh, that was the link that the dojo provided to learn more about Kuntao. The link to the dojo itself is here

Though I guess if it's based off this guy who you were gracious enough to research, maybe Combat Kuntao isn't so effective?
 

Flying Crane

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When looking at a club I always think that the instructor is just as important as the style. Do they look any good? Do they make up false credentials? etc. Then you can look at some videos of the style in action.

Had a quick look at the Kuntao link you posted. I'm always sceptical of any organisation that covers everything in camo..... But I'll give it the benefit of the doubt on that. That being said skimming through the head of the organisations very long list of accomplishments is a gold medal in the International Police Olympics in 1992. Should be easy enough to check right?

I can't find any reference to the International Police Olympics from a quick google. Some other events, including the World Police and Fire Games, but that happens every two years and was in 1991 and 1993.

He claims he was inducted into the Black Belt Hall of Fame in 2006. He's not in their list of 2006 inductees.

I then watch a quick video and the first thing he demonstrates is countering someone's jab by "destroying the bicep". AKA he blocks and punches their bicep at exactly the same time whilst they are mid punch. If they're teaching this kind of stuff, it's not an effective martial art. Even if you could pull it off, which is possible, if they are A LOT slower than you, or you can pre-empt it, trying to block in one direction and punch with a lot of force in the opposite direction just doesn't work from a biomechanics point of view, either you don't block hard enough and the punch still gets you in the face, or there is little power in your punch. The guy doesn't even move his body, it's all arm work. It's telling that when they drill it quickly the punch is like 2 feet from his face, it wouldn't work otherwise.


Please don't go to the Kuntao place.
Im trying to understand what makes it a kuntao. I believe the term is used to describe a Chinese method brought into Indonesia, Malaysia, or the Filipinos, and then influenced by local methods to develop a newer method. How does this fit that description?
 

Flying Crane

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Yes linking it here

While I'm at it, Here is the GJJ dojo

Here is the Kali

and the Hapkido/Kuntao place also has Arnis
Ok, the GJJ link is not a live link.

Looks like the other schools are somehow affiliated but it isnt clear exactly how. These other systems may not be offered under the same roof. You will need to get more info on that.

I see that they are making a prominent Christian connection in these schools, affiliated with Karate for Christ. You need to decide if that is something you would be comfortable with, they may evangelize through their martial teaching. Personally, I would be very uncomfortable with that and would not go to any of these schools for that reason alone.
 

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When looking at a club I always think that the instructor is just as important as the style. Do they look any good? Do they make up false credentials? etc. Then you can look at some videos of the style in action.

Had a quick look at the Kuntao link you posted. I'm always sceptical of any organisation that covers everything in camo..... But I'll give it the benefit of the doubt on that. That being said skimming through the head of the organisations very long list of accomplishments is a gold medal in the International Police Olympics in 1992. Should be easy enough to check right?

I can't find any reference to the International Police Olympics from a quick google. Some other events, including the World Police and Fire Games, but that happens every two years and was in 1991 and 1993.

He claims he was inducted into the Black Belt Hall of Fame in 2006. He's not in their list of 2006 inductees.

I then watch a quick video and the first thing he demonstrates is countering someone's jab by "destroying the bicep". AKA he blocks and punches their bicep at exactly the same time whilst they are mid punch. If they're teaching this kind of stuff, it's not an effective martial art. Even if you could pull it off, which is possible, if they are A LOT slower than you, or you can pre-empt it, trying to block in one direction and punch with a lot of force in the opposite direction just doesn't work from a biomechanics point of view, either you don't block hard enough and the punch still gets you in the face, or there is little power in your punch. The guy doesn't even move his body, it's all arm work. It's telling that when they drill it quickly the punch is like 2 feet from his face, it wouldn't work otherwise.


Please don't go to the Kuntao place.
The technique youre talking about is called gunting in FMA, and the strike to the bicep isnt generally intended as any sort of power shot. Its a quick slapping action, generally using an extended knuckle or some sort of small weapon, to the nerves on the inside of the arm. It can hurt, but the unarmed version is definitely not going to destroy the bicep. The goal is more to distract, perhaps cause some cumulative damage, and maybe make the opponent more hesitant about punching.

The fact that the instructor didnt seem to be presenting a realistic application of the technique makes me think that either his understanding is lacking or that he was deliberately overselling the technique to impress.
 
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Addsplendor

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Ok, the GJJ link is not a live link.

Looks like the other schools are somehow affiliated but it isnt clear exactly how. These other systems may not be offered under the same roof. You will need to get more info on that.

I see that they are making a prominent Christian connection in these schools, affiliated with Karate for Christ. You need to decide if that is something you would be comfortable with, they may evangelize through their martial teaching. Personally, I would be very uncomfortable with that and would not go to any of these schools for that reason alone.
Looks like they must have taken the GJJ site down, I was able to access it recently so maybe they went out of business...

Yes, the Hapkido, Kuntao and Arnis are at the same dojo and now that I look they do have religious affiliation.

I am not a practicing catholic and consider myself an atheist but that alone is not a deal-breaker for me. I can respect their beliefs as long as the instruction is good.

By the way, thank you so much for taking the time to look into these things. It is very generous and appreciated.
 

Tony Dismukes

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Okay, Ive had a chance now to look through the Combat Kuntao website and watch some of their videos. I would not put them on the top of any recommendations list. There are a number of red flags on the website and the videos do not convince me that they have a good understanding of the actual application of much of what they are teaching. Its not the worst instruction Ive seen, but Ive seen much, much better.
 
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Addsplendor

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Okay, Ive had a chance now to look through the Combat Kuntao website and watch some of their videos. I would not put them on the top of any recommendations list. There are a number of red flags on the website and the videos do not convince me that they have a good understanding of the actual application of much of what they are teaching. Its not the worst instruction Ive seen, but Ive seen much, much better.
Fair.

Im now thinking either Kali/Arnis, Hapkido or BJJ in order of favor...
 

Tony Dismukes

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Im trying to understand what makes it a kuntao. I believe the term is used to describe a Chinese method brought into Indonesia, Malaysia, or the Filipinos, and then influenced by local methods to develop a newer method. How does this fit that description?
It looks to be the instructors own hybrid system, based on a variety of arts (Im seeing some FMA and JKD influence in there), which he has decided to name Kuntao for some reason.
 
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Addsplendor

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Where are you located? The schools youve linked dont seem to be in the same geographical area.
Chattanooga, TN (relocating to this city soon). They're all in the same area.

There is also BJJ and MMA in the area, which I'm starting to also consider.
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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Okay, Ive had a chance now to look through the Combat Kuntao website and watch some of their videos. I would not put them on the top of any recommendations list. There are a number of red flags on the website and the videos do not convince me that they have a good understanding of the actual application of much of what they are teaching. Its not the worst instruction Ive seen, but Ive seen much, much better.
Am I missing something? I did not see any videos on their website.
 

Buka

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Yep. When the Machados moved to the U.S., they tried to use the Gracie Jiu-Jitsu name to give credit to the founders, but Rorion threatened to sue them, so Machado Jiu-Jitsu it was.
@Tony, you know how much I love and admire BJJ. But I swear, it has more cliques than a Beverly Hills high school.
 

Tony Dismukes

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@Tony, you know how much I love and admire BJJ. But I swear, it has more cliques than a Beverly Hills high school.
I think it's better than it was. There seems to be a lot more openness to training with different groups and less focus on hiding material or selling the idea that "BJJ and specifically my personal brand of BJJ is the best" than there was 20-30 years ago.
 

Tony Dismukes

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Chattanooga, TN (relocating to this city soon). They're all in the same area.

There is also BJJ and MMA in the area, which I'm starting to also consider.
Fortunately it does look like you have some good options for both BJJ and MMA in the area. I'd visit as many schools as you can to see which one seems to fit best for you.
 

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