Kicking with rechamber vs no rechamber

[Flying Crane]

Some kicks you chamber, some you don’t. And sometimes, when you land a kick - where you want to go from there will dictate what you do. If I throw a roundhouse to your body my leg is coming down to the floor as quickly as possible as I like to fight in the kitchen.

Ah right! You might have spilled some coffee and the floor is slippery! Smart move.

 

[Flying Crane]

Perhaps the issue is with you. I have Dan ranks in KKW, ITF and MDK styles and don't have any issues. Nor do I have any reason to think I'm just some world class prodigy. I think I'm pretty normal. Nor do I find myself using TKD techniques when I'm fighting with rapier.

In my experience, there can be some confusion created in the body mechanics when training in multiple systems that each have a different approach to developing their techniques. I remember very specifically that I was training in two different methods that practiced the basic punch differently from each other. It was a matter of a difference in torso rotation and how the lower platform was used to deliver power. I found myself doing something in between the two, which resulted in one instructor telling me “stop rotating like that, keep your shoulders squared” and the other telling me “you aren’t rotating enough, go farther”. I realized that practicing the one system was undermining my training in the other, and vice-versa.

If I was determined to keep training in both then likely I could have overcome the problem and done a better job of compartmentalizing the training. But why would I? What seemed more important to me is consistency in the training. Focusing my efforts in one methodology, rather than splitting limited time and energy between conflicting methods made more sense to me. And assuming that each of these systems can result in the development of a powerful punch, then there is no real reason to practice conflicting methodologies. The consistency ensures that your body responds in the same manner every time you throw that punch, maximizing the quality of the technique. In my opinion, that is important.

And for me, I came to feel that one of these methods was superior and resonated with me more than the other, so there was no good reason to practice both, just so I can have another system on my resume.

 

[Dirty Dog]

In my experience, there can be some confusion created in the body mechanics when training in multiple systems that each have a different approach to developing their techniques. I remember very specifically that I was training in two different methods that practiced the basic punch differently from each other. It was a matter of a difference in torso rotation and how the lower platform was used to deliver power. I found myself doing something in between the two, which resulted in one instructor telling me “stop rotating like that, keep your shoulders squared” and the other telling me “you aren’t rotating enough, go farther”. I realized that practicing the one system was undermining my training in the other, and vice-versa.

If I was determined to keep training in both then likely I could have overcome the problem and done a better job of compartmentalizing the training. But why would I? What seemed more important to me is consistency in the training. Focusing my efforts in one methodology, rather than splitting limited time and energy between conflicting methods made more sense to me. And assuming that each of these systems can result in the development of a powerful punch, then there is no real reason to practice conflicting methodologies. The consistency ensures that your body responds in the same manner every time you throw that punch, maximizing the quality of the technique. In my opinion, that is important.

And for me, I came to feel that one of these methods was superior and resonated with me more than the other, so there was no good reason to practice both, just so I can have another system on my resume.

Sure. I think most people will agree that learning multiple things at the same time can take longer.
Of course, that isn't the same as saying learning multiple things will mess up your muscle memory. If you've got muscle memory, then it's safe to say you're not just learning something. Refining or adding to, but not learning.

 

[Flying Crane]

Sure. I think most people will agree that learning multiple things at the same time can take longer.
Of course, that isn't the same as saying learning multiple things will mess up your muscle memory. If you've got muscle memory, then it's safe to say you're not just learning something. Refining or adding to, but not learning.

Yes, I realize it is not an apples to apples comparison and I do not believe that practicing kicks both with and without retraction is detrimental or would create that kind of confusion.

 

[Equilibrum32]

This inability to distinguish between things that YOU can't do and things NOBODY can do seems to be chronic.

Lol.

 

[Equilibrum32]

I think there's a larger question here. From my (non-TKD experience), the movements in forms are movements you can fight with, and sparring is practicing fighting. Therefore, you can use those movements when you spar.

If for whatever reason you aren't, you have to figure out: Is it a systemic issue (e.g. is the system teaching unrealistic forms, and/or unrealistic sparring rules), a teaching issue (e.g. is the teacher not teaching you the movements properly/their purposes, and/or not encouraging you to try them out in sparring), or is it a personal issue (e.g. are you not attempting those movements in sparring, and instead are focusing on other non-form techniques, or just going by instinct)?

I don't know TKD, your teacher/dojang, or you so I can't answer which of the three it is, but you should probably make sure you understand where the issue is first.

There isn't any footwork in traditional Karate and TKD forms. You are kicking and punching from one static position to another, usually. You aren't moving and striking, like you do shadowboxing

 

[Flying Crane]

There isn't any footwork in traditional Karate and TKD forms. You are kicking and punching from one static position to another, usually. You aren't moving and striking, like you do shadowboxing

Ummm…not from what Ive seen.

 

[Equilibrum32]

Ummm…not from what Ive seen.

Show me a pattern incorporating footwork and striking.

 

[Buka]

Ah right! You might have spilled some coffee and the floor is slippery! Smart move.

My floor is always slippery, I skate and slide the best I can.

As for "smart", yeah, that's iffy at best.

 

[Earl Weiss]

Show me a pattern incorporating footwork and striking.

Everyone of the Chang Hon forms. It's not sparring footwork but footwork none the less and progressive system at that starting with 1/4 turns, then half, 3/4 etc. forward and back ward striking while moving forward and backward. If all you want to do is compete in a certain type of sparring don't waste time and energy on forms. If all you want to do is train for combat or self defense (IMO different things) don't waste time and energy on a traditional MA.

 

[Equilibrum32]

Everyone of the Chang Hon forms. It's not sparring footwork but footwork none the less and progressive system at that starting with 1/4 turns, then half, 3/4 etc. forward and back ward striking while moving forward and backward. If all you want to do is compete in a certain type of sparring don't waste time and energy on forms. If all you want to do is train for combat or self defense (IMO different things) don't waste time and energy on a traditional MA.

Yes, I meant sparring footwork - the one relevant for actual fighting.

 

[Equilibrum32]

If all you want to do is train for combat or self defense (IMO different things) don't waste time and energy on a traditional MA.

Dirty Dog is arguing that patterns are relevant for combat and self defense. I do not train patterns in my home training.

 

[Flying Crane]

Yes, I meant sparring footwork - the one relevant for actual fighting.

Do you believe that sparring is the only thing relevant to actual fighting?

If so, then what specific type of sparring? And are the other types not relevant to actual fighting?

 

[Dirty Dog]

There isn't any footwork in traditional Karate and TKD forms. You are kicking and punching from one static position to another, usually. You aren't moving and striking, like you do shadowboxing

Incorrect, as others have already pointed out. And as seems typical for you, when WHY you're wrong is pointed out, you just move the goalposts further down the field.

 

[Equilibrum32]

Incorrect, as others have already pointed out. And as seems typical for you, when WHY you're wrong is pointed out, you just move the goalposts further down the field.

No it's not. I wrote traditional forms. They don't involve free fighting footwork. I haven't checked KKWs latest ones

 

[Equilibrum32]

Incorrect, as others have already pointed out. And as seems typical for you, when WHY you're wrong is pointed out, you just move the goalposts further down the field.

Earl agreed that no sparring footwork is to be found. I didn't mean that that you Literally don't move your feet

 

[Earl Weiss]

Yes, I meant sparring footwork - the one relevant for actual fighting.

Sir,

First you have to define "Actual Fighting"
Is that
A. Sparring,
B. Combat,
C. Self Defense,
Some, All, or None of the above?

 

[Earl Weiss]

Dirty Dog is arguing that patterns are relevant for combat and self defense.

Sir, I agree.

 

[_Simon_]

I...... am..... having some..... deja vu....

Anyone else..?

That is.... ALL... I shall say

 

[Equilibrum32]

Sir, I agree.

So relevant but not optimal for combat?