Kicking with rechamber vs no rechamber

Flying Crane

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All of the above, but especially A and B
How do you define sparring? Some kinds of sparring are very far removed from real fighting. Others are closer. They are not all the same.

At any rate, I personally do not feel that sparring holds as much value as a lot of people seem to do. But that’s just me. Ones mileage may vary.
 
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Equilibrum32

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How do you define sparring? Some kinds of sparring are very far removed from real fighting. Others are closer. They are not all the same.

At any rate, I personally do not feel that sparring holds as much value as a lot of people seem to do. But that’s just me. Ones mileage may vary.

The discussion was if forms in and of themselves make you better in sparring. It was not true in Boxing, at least. No correlation at all, and some of the best fighters of all time had poor form.
 

Monkey Turned Wolf

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The discussion was if forms in and of themselves make you better in sparring. It was not true in Boxing, at least. No correlation at all, and some of the best fighters of all time had poor form.
The discussion was actually about rechambering kicks. The discussion you're claiming now isn't even actually one that was transiently brought up in here as far as I can tell.
 

Earl Weiss

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The discussion was if forms in and of themselves make you better in sparring. It was not true in Boxing, at least. No correlation at all, and some of the best fighters of all time had poor form.
Seems to be a straw man argument; "The discussion was if forms in and of themselves make you better in sparring." I don' see where any one claimed that. It would be akin to claiming Speed bag work alone, or running alone makes you better at boxing.
 

Earl Weiss

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All of the above, but especially A and B
Earl Weiss said:
Sir,

First you have to define "Actual Fighting"
Is that
A. Sparring,
B. Combat,
C. Self Defense,
Some, All, or None of the above?

How many opponents will you face in Sparring and where are they generally positioned in relation to you?

How many opponents will you face in Combat and where are they positioned?
 

drop bear

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Earl Weiss said:
Sir,

First you have to define "Actual Fighting"
Is that
A. Sparring,
B. Combat,
C. Self Defense,
Some, All, or None of the above?

How many opponents will you face in Sparring and where are they generally positioned in relation to you?

How many opponents will you face in Combat and where are they positioned?

Not sure that matters as much as people want it to.

The problem is people just say multiple sparring without really thinking about the issue.

So this is ring craft.


And being good at this is being good at multiple opponents.
 
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Earl Weiss

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Not sure that matters as much as people want it to.

The problem is people just say multiple sparring without really thinking about the issue.

So this is ring craft.


And being good at this is being good at multiple opponents.
First and foremost I do not consider an encounter with multiple attackers "Sparring" . Secondly, while the video has valuable skills I don't see how it has anything to do with multiple attackers who maybe behind or to other side of you as well as in front. It seems to address only a single "Opponent" who is initially positioned directly in front of you.
 

drop bear

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First and foremost I do not consider an encounter with multiple attackers "Sparring" . Secondly, while the video has valuable skills I don't see how it has anything to do with multiple attackers who maybe behind or to other side of you as well as in front. It seems to address only a single "Opponent" who is initially positioned directly in front of you.

If you can't see it. You can't see it I guess.
 

isshinryuronin

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So this is ring craft
Very good movement in the video, but I'm not sure I would call it "ring craft." I say this because the movement was all in relation to the opponent, slipping and shrugging off attacks. There was no movement in regards to the ring (or other fighting environment) such as cutting off lines of retreat or otherwise interceeding yourself in spaces the opponent wants to go, positioning the opponent up against the ropes (or other obstacles, including his fellow thugs) or otherwise manipulating him in regards to the fighting space. At least that's how I see ring craft, IMHO.
And being good at this being good at multiple opponents.
The movements shown demonstrate good footwork and defensive maneuvering which I think are definitely prerequisites for fighting multiple opponents. Other spatial factors then come into play as the other attackers' positions must be considered and ring craft, as I defined it above, becomes even more important.

One factor the clip did not address (understood that it was not the purpose of the clip) is finishing one guy ASAP. You just can't slip and pass him - a viable threat is now at your six as you attempt to deal with the next guy. Evasion is easy against one - against two or three, slick footwork and slipping skills will only buy you a couple of short seconds. Very soon, you need to start dropping bodies that won't quickly get back up.

Three attackers, even if they're chumps, are not to be taken lightly. Mr. Murphy may join in the fight at any time. I would never willingly take on three attackers. If absolutely forced into it, I'd find the best spatial position to minimize exposure to multiple lines of attack. Then, attack with shock and awe till all the bodies are on the ground (hopefully mine not included.)
 

Graywalker

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When I see questions like this, I'm always a bit baffled. Because the answer to "should you rechamber or not" is, obviously, yes. You absolutely should either rechamber or not. Depending on the specifics of the situation, both are the correct answer.
I would agree.
 

drop bear

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Very good movement in the video, but I'm not sure I would call it "ring craft." I say this because the movement was all in relation to the opponent, slipping and shrugging off attacks. There was no movement in regards to the ring (or other fighting environment) such as cutting off lines of retreat or otherwise interceeding yourself in spaces the opponent wants to go, positioning the opponent up against the ropes (or other obstacles, including his fellow thugs) or otherwise manipulating him in regards to the fighting space. At least that's how I see ring craft, IMHO.

The movements shown demonstrate good footwork and defensive maneuvering which I think are definitely prerequisites for fighting multiple opponents. Other spatial factors then come into play as the other attackers' positions must be considered and ring craft, as I defined it above, becomes even more important.

One factor the clip did not address (understood that it was not the purpose of the clip) is finishing one guy ASAP. You just can't slip and pass him - a viable threat is now at your six as you attempt to deal with the next guy. Evasion is easy against one - against two or three, slick footwork and slipping skills will only buy you a couple of short seconds. Very soon, you need to start dropping bodies that won't quickly get back up.

Three attackers, even if they're chumps, are not to be taken lightly. Mr. Murphy may join in the fight at any time. I would never willingly take on three attackers. If absolutely forced into it, I'd find the best spatial position to minimize exposure to multiple lines of attack. Then, attack with shock and awe till all the bodies are on the ground (hopefully mine not included.)

Yeah the videos was more concept than specific. And yeah I agree with your definition.

Otherwise it is all pieces of a puzzle. Creating all the flanking and positional advantage gives you a bit more hope to land some shots. That then gives you advantage elsewhere.
 

Earl Weiss

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Creating all the flanking and positional advantage gives you a bit more hope to land some shots. That then gives you advantage elsewhere.
Exactly, positional advantage with a single adversary may be far different that when facing multiple adversaries.
 

drop bear

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Exactly, positional advantage with a single adversary may be far different that when facing multiple adversaries.

It isn't that different.
The positional advantage is pretty much the same. It is just easier to get to when you have more people to hit those positions.
 

Balrog

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My experience is that rechambering stiffles the strike somewhat for average mortals. You inevitably lean to recoil the leg and your body is anticipating rechambering before the strike is launched, which makes it less impactful.

Discussion:

Is there a compromise to kicks that involve rechambers as opposed to natural decline/drop?
I have never found anticipation of rechambering to be a factor. I guess that's because we train for heavy impact on the bags and when we do repeats, we stress that the second kick should be as powerful as the first. However, if the student knocks the bag over on the first, it makes the second kick moot.
 
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