Kicking with rechamber vs no rechamber

[Equilibrum32]

My experience is that rechambering stiffles the strike somewhat for average mortals. You inevitably lean to recoil the leg and your body is anticipating rechambering before the strike is launched, which makes it less impactful.

Discussion:

Is there a compromise to kicks that involve rechambers as opposed to natural decline/drop?

 

[_Simon_]

Hmm interesting thought!

I do really think it depends it depends it depends. Rechambering to me has always been about just having full control of the kick (so you're not just dropping it), a way to not 'fall into' your opponent's potential strike (launch the kick then have the option to move back), and also so they don't grab your leg.

Whenever I've sparred, launched a kick and rechambered, it was never really pulled back too early, but I do see what you mean and I'm sure that happens, probably more with non/light contact styles.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Please do not rechamber your kick. Jamming or catching kicks is what I love to do.

 

[Equilibrum32]

Please do not rechamber your kick. Jamming or catching kicks is what I love to do.

They don't rechamber in Muay Thai and they seem to do alright..

 

[Bill Mattocks]

They don't rechamber in Muay Thai and they seem to do alright..

That's true. I wonder what they do when people catch their kicks?

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

That's true. I wonder what they do when people catch their kicks?

Typically the idea is that the kick should be strong enough you don't want to take it (and if you avoid it, it's continuing it's path/landing).

 

[MadMartigan]

They don't rechamber in Muay Thai and they seem to do alright..

Muay Thai definitely does just fine. They use only a couple kicks really, but get really good at them.

For a round kick/turning kick, I don't see much benefit from rechambering. As said above, hit hard. If it works, you usually don't need to rechamber. If you miss, then it's not likely to get caught.

For a side kick on the otherhand, one of it's benefits can be that it stops the opponent's forward momentum. Even if it's not that powerful (such as a front leg 'jab' side kick) it acts as a barrier between you. In that situation, rechambering is huge. You need to train to follow through the target (by 4-6 inches) then get your foot back to regain your center of gravity.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

That's true. I wonder what they do when people catch their kicks?

One option I learned in the event of someone catching my round kick is to hop in closer, clinch the opponents head, and drive my knee into their ribs as I pull down on their head. That usually gives me the reaction I need to free the leg.

Of course there are counters the opponent can use to shut down that response and use the caught leg to their advantage, so it largely comes down to who reacts and executes more effectively.

As others have noted, the nature of MT style kicks is that they are harder to catch without taking damage, but catching them is still part of the art.

 

[Dirty Dog]

When I see questions like this, I'm always a bit baffled. Because the answer to "should you rechamber or not" is, obviously, yes. You absolutely should either rechamber or not. Depending on the specifics of the situation, both are the correct answer.

 

[Equilibrum32]

When I see questions like this, I'm always a bit baffled. Because the answer to "should you rechamber or not" is, obviously, yes. You absolutely should either rechamber or not. Depending on the specifics of the situation, both are the correct answer.

Except that wasn't what I asked

 

[Dirty Dog]

Except that wasn't what I asked

The answer remains the same. Rechamber fully. Or not at all. Or partially. Whatever works best for you in those particular circumstances.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

One option I learned in the event of someone catching my round kick is to hop in closer, clinch the opponents head, and drive my knee into their ribs as I pull down on their head. That usually gives me the reaction I need to free the leg.

Of course there are counters the opponent can use to shut down that response and use the caught leg to their advantage, so it largely comes down to who reacts and executes more effectively.

As others have noted, the nature of MT style kicks is that they are harder to catch without taking damage, but catching them is still part of the art.

I call that 'jamming' a kick. If you can see the kick being loaded up, move in fast to get well inside the arc of the swing. If you can get to the point of origin, you can knock the person down (they're standing on one leg) or hit the balance point on their hip and disrupt the kick before it launches (stealing balance, which I love), or if you're too late to stop the kick from being launched, do something mean to their face as you described. I'm not really very fast, but I try to see kicks coming and jump inside. It's almost always where I want to be in a fight anyway.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I call that 'jamming' a kick. If you can see the kick being loaded up, move in fast to get well inside the arc of the swing. If you can get to the point of origin, you can knock the person down (they're standing on one leg) or hit the balance point on their hip and disrupt the kick before it launches (stealing balance, which I love), or if you're too late to stop the kick from being launched, do something mean to their face as you described. I'm not really very fast, but I try to see kicks coming and jump inside. It's almost always where I want to be in a fight anyway.

I think he's referring to the opposite actually. If you're kicking someone and they go to catch (but not jam) it, you can essentially 'jam' their catch. If they're not expecting it you can, the second they grab, hop in and get to grappling range. Your still in a disadvantageous position, but if they're not prepared you can unbalance them enough to get your leg out and retreat back to striking range.

Takes some cojones though, since if you messed up, you're just letting them grapple you while you hop around at their choice distance.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I think he's referring to the opposite actually. If you're kicking someone and they go to catch (but not jam) it, you can essentially 'jam' their catch. If they're not expecting it you can, the second they grab, hop in and get to grappling range. Your still in a disadvantageous position, but if they're not prepared you can unbalance them enough to get your leg out and retreat back to striking range.

Takes some cojones though, since if you messed up, you're just letting them grapple you while you hop around at their choice distance.

You are correct, with the addendum that driving the knee in can actual hurt them enough to aid with the unbalancing and getting your leg free.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

You are correct, with the addendum that driving the knee in can actual hurt them enough to aid with the unbalancing and getting your leg free.

Cool. Wasn't sure if that was to actually hurt them or just push them a bit to help the unbalancing since you don't really have a good grounding at that point. I don't think I'd ever try adding in the knee in a grappling-oriented environment.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I call that 'jamming' a kick. If you can see the kick being loaded up, move in fast to get well inside the arc of the swing. If you can get to the point of origin, you can knock the person down (they're standing on one leg) or hit the balance point on their hip and disrupt the kick before it launches (stealing balance, which I love), or if you're too late to stop the kick from being launched, do something mean to their face as you described. I'm not really very fast, but I try to see kicks coming and jump inside. It's almost always where I want to be in a fight anyway.

As MTW noted above, I was actually referring to a counter the kicker can use if his leg is caught.

Jamming of the sort you describe is a legitimate approach in MT as well, but it's a bit trickier than in some other kicking arts. This is because the arc of potential damage is wider with a MT style round kick than a kick thrown in most other styles. If I throw a MT style round kick, I can impact anywhere from my knee to my foot and cause damage. This means you have to really get in close quickly to get inside arc of the swing.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Cool. Wasn't sure if that was to actually hurt them or just push them a bit to help the unbalancing since you don't really have a good grounding at that point. I don't think I'd ever try adding in the knee in a grappling-oriented environment.

It won't do major damage, but it can definitely add a bit of oomph to your leg escape

 

[JowGaWolf]

I chamber all of my kicks.. I don't want anyone grab my leg. But with that said I also have kicks that aren't really kicks. In other words the main purpose isn't the kick. it's to get you to grab my leg or to reach for it in a bad way. This allows me to pull my opponent to the ground.

Kicks are light So if you are catching a kick your opponent will hold your leg up for you. But if your opponent is baiting you then when you grab the leg it will either be at a bad position that breaks your structure or you will discover very quickly that the kick is pulling you to the ground. In this context the kick isn't chamber. Technically the kick really isn't a kick since goal was to bait the other person to go to the leg.

But if you do kick with the purpose of kicking then you should re chamber that leg as needed. I personally wouldn't drop my kick. It makes it easy to catch and you may be dropping into a counter.

There is also a different between Stepping after kick and dropping after kick. Dropping tends to be bad habit. Stepping tends to be right place right time and it's done with the understanding that you aren't risking a captured kick. Often it's a transition from one strike to the next.

 

[isshinryuronin]

I agreed with Dirty Dog that both kind of kicks have their uses. "Heavy" kicking that blows thru the target, unchambered, with raw power can be devastating and may discourage someone trying to catch it. Aiming this kick to the leg makes it hard to catch it that low.

I do practice this kind of unchambered kick, but for me, it's hard to quickly followup having put much power into it, especially if I miss, finding myself a little out of position and off balance. Also for me, it seems to require a little more effort and time to launch it. So, while I work to develop it, it's not my go to move. (Could be I just need to work it more and get more comfortable in execution and post-positioning.)

Chambering the kick to me means kicking fast with the force being focused, allowing the kick to snap back more or less on the same line. While lacking the devastating power of the other kick, when well executed it can cause very effective results. At the same time, it allows me to easily followup with balance and control and lessens the chance for it to be caught or trapped.

The choice of which one to use may be dependent on the particular art, one's personal style as well as one's physique. No matter one's preference, it's good to be able to do the other as well. There's a time and place for each.

 

[skribs]

It looks to me like Muay Thai guys rechamber.