Kata Critique

PhotonGuy

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So overall I think this kata looked quite good although it was mostly just a kata that used hand techniques, there wasn't much kicking involved although that's the kata not the person doing it. As for the person doing it, she does look quite good although she could put more hip and more power into her techniques.
 

DaveB

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I don't think Uechi ryu does hip.

I also don't believe in judging kata. Once you go down that road karate becomes dancing.
 
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PhotonGuy

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I also don't believe in judging kata. Once you go down that road karate becomes dancing.
I somewhat agree but the fact of the matter is that kata is judged and judging kata makes up a big part of Karate tournaments.
 

pdg

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@PhotonGuy - is that you doing the kata?

If not, it's not exactly fair for me (/us) to critique the performance as said performer isn't available for comment or discussion...
 

Tez3

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@PhotonGuy - is that you doing the kata?

If not, it's not exactly fair for me (/us) to critique the performance as said performer isn't available for comment or discussion...


This, absolutely.
 

JR 137

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@PhotonGuy - is that you doing the kata?

If not, it's not exactly fair for me (/us) to critique the performance as said performer isn't available for comment or discussion...
I dont agree with that. The videos publicly online, therefore subject to scrutiny. Im not saying its ok to tear it apart, be disrespectful, etc. But by making it public, the poster should know it can be discussed publicly.
 

pdg

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Im not saying its ok to tear it apart

In my dictionaries, that's essentially what the word "critique" means...

Present and discuss, sure. But go through and pick flaws? Not so much.
 

JR 137

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I think her performance is quite good. Definitely in line with what Ive seen from Uechi Ryu practitioners. Uechi kata arent flashy at all; just simple and effective moves (if you know their application). Ive been told theres truly only one type of kick in Uechi, which is a front kick with the toes. Many dojos add roundhouse and a few other basic kicks, but I dont think theyre part of the formal syllabus.

My only criticism of the kata is she should add a little more power to the techniques.
 
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PhotonGuy

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In my dictionaries, that's essentially what the word "critique" means...

Present and discuss, sure. But go through and pick flaws? Not so much.
Alright than I used the wrong word. I should've said discuss it not critique it. In terms of discussing the kata Im basically saying what JR 137 said in post #6
 

Headhunter

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@PhotonGuy - is that you doing the kata?

If not, it's not exactly fair for me (/us) to critique the performance as said performer isn't available for comment or discussion...
When you put something online you want people to see it so they should realise criticism is a big part of that
 

JR 137

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In my dictionaries, that's essentially what the word "critique" means...

Present and discuss, sure. But go through and pick flaws? Not so much.
Maybe semantics here. By tear apart I mean basically trashing it and the practitioner.

I dont see anything wrong with respectfully pointing out flaws. I dont like seeing/reading all the negative/nasty stuff like you see the people doing on YouTube, but at the same time if youre putting yourself out there on that medium, youve got to expect it and not let it get to you. It sucks that thats the way it is, but it is what it is. If youre putting yourself out there to the public, then youve got to deal with the public. Its like free speech - everyone wants to say what they want, yet very few want to hear what anyone else is saying.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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I don't think Uechi ryu does hip.
No matter how good that you can do your form, if your form doesn't have "body method" and only have the arms movement, you still cannot express your "body method".

What is "body method"? You can only see the body move and you don't see the arms move. Can you do your form by putting your arms behind your back and just let your body to do your form?

If we use "body method" to judge MA styles, many MA style will fail to that standard. Not every MA styles design their form with "body method" in mind.

Example of "body method".

 
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hoshin1600

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since im a Uechi guy ill give my thoughts.
Uechi kata does not do well in competition. the form done is Sanseru, its a Chinese form and Chinese forms are done with a different feel then that of Japanese kata. the judging of karate kata is done on a Japanese standard, especially since this was filmed at a Japanese competition. her performance is very typical of many dojo. during her interview she mentions she trained with Kiyohide Shinjo. he is a top master and the Uechi guy all over Youtube breaking stuff with his fingers and toes. he is very into precision. when Renee performs her kata it is somewhat robotic (often critiqued in Uechi as robot ryu) this is a consequence of trying to change the natural feel of the kata in order to have a more Japanese feel. in Uechi ryu some do it like this and some dont. i personally do not subscribe to this type of performance.
the original feel of the form would be like this clip, granted its a different form but it would be the same feel and cadence.

now this is the Japanese standard for kata

i really love Rika...i mean Rika's kata.....:rolleyes:
but there is a big difference in how forms are done between Chinese and Japanese styles.

that being said, looking at it from a Uechi standard.. it is very technically correct. it is lacking in flow and it does not have the power seen typically in Uechi kata. the comment was made on hips and @DaveB is correct Uechi does not use exaggerated hip rotations the way many styles do. the hip tucks and rolls under the butt instead. i would also liked to have seen more dynamics in tempo. some actions could have been done slower in order to put emphisis on other actions, bit over all it is a very good kata.
 
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DaveB

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No matter how good that you can do your form, if your form doesn't have "body method" and only have the arms movement, you still cannot express your "body method".

What is "body method"? You can only see the body move and you don't see the arms move. Can you do your form by putting your arms behind your back and just let your body to do your form?

If we use "body method" to judge MA styles, many MA style will fail to that standard. Not every MA styles design their form with "body method" in mind.

Example of "body method".

The southern kung fu from that region that birthed Uechi ryu tend to base their power on the waist, not the hips.
 

Steve

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@PhotonGuy - is that you doing the kata?

If not, it's not exactly fair for me (/us) to critique the performance as said performer isn't available for comment or discussion...
I don't understand this. How does fairness play into it?
 

Kung Fu Wang

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The southern kung fu from that region that birthed Uechi ryu tend to base their power on the waist, not the hips.
The Uechi ryu doesn't have

- body rotation,
- body folding.

By using Uechi ryu form,. it's very difficult to express what your body can do. So if you try to judge someone's form by "body method", you may not be able to find it.
 
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dvcochran

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In my dictionaries, that's essentially what the word "critique" means...

Present and discuss, sure. But go through and pick flaws? Not so much.
If there are flaws, they are fundamental problems and should be critiqued. All part of the natural progression of MA.
 

dvcochran

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What was your disagreement with my post?
Competing or displaying Kata is a quality way to expand the value of doing forms. It allows personal interpretation while adhering to the original confines of the pattern. Being judged or critiqued adds a mental and maturation component that has great value in personal growth. It is a great way to cultivate experience outside your own dojo/dojang and create comradery with other people in the MA family. Plus, it is just fun.
 

JR 137

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Competing or displaying Kata is a quality way to expand the value of doing forms. It allows personal interpretation while adhering to the original confines of the pattern. Being judged or critiqued adds a mental and maturation component that has great value in personal growth. It is a great way to cultivate experience outside your own dojo/dojang and create comradery with other people in the MA family. Plus, it is just fun.
And just because you compete in kata doesnt mean thats the only thing you do with it.
 

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