Kajukenbo or Kosho Ryu
- Thread starter D.Hardman
- Start date
kosho
3rd Black Belt
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- Sep 8, 2006
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Arnold M. Golub
Kosho Shorei Ryu Kempo
Back to:James M. Mitose
Thomas Barro Mitose
Bernard Cortez
Andrew Moldero
George Nieve
Les Young
Larry Siebert
David Elauria
Raul Gutierrez
Ely Gwin
Bill Tolentino
Larry Garcia
Tony Bowles
Shirley Mitose
Terry Gwin
Cote Lopez
Barry Lim
Nick Boccio
Keith Samuels
Andrew Conception
Lex Duey
Eric Ramin
Elizabeth Trezza
Jason Cortez
John Henderson
Daniel Macaaly
Jon Duey
Rian Macaaly
Pedro Porem
Fernando Silva
Manuel Maya
Miguel Rivas Rodriguez
Kosho Shorei Ryu Kempo
Back to:James M. Mitose
Thomas Barro Mitose
Bernard Cortez
Andrew Moldero
George Nieve
Les Young
Larry Siebert
David Elauria
Raul Gutierrez
Ely Gwin
Bill Tolentino
Larry Garcia
Tony Bowles
Shirley Mitose
Terry Gwin
Cote Lopez
Barry Lim
Nick Boccio
Keith Samuels
Andrew Conception
Lex Duey
Eric Ramin
Elizabeth Trezza
Jason Cortez
John Henderson
Daniel Macaaly
Jon Duey
Rian Macaaly
Pedro Porem
Fernando Silva
Manuel Maya
Miguel Rivas Rodriguez
this is what I found under the James Mitose Family Tree...
I think he was a student under Golub Sensei.
Hope this helped
Kosho
Well, it'd be best to contact him and ask ([email protected]). I've only known him since around 91-92. At that time he was 6th or 7th degree in Kajukenbo, under Edmund Louis (Leeward Kenpo Karate, Hawaii). They have since parted ways. His present rank in Kajukenbo is 9th degree.
His Kosho ranking is from Tom Mitose, so you may want to contact Tom and ask him how that came about. I don't know his ranking in Kosho.
As to his beginnings, all I've heard is that he trained in Hawaii while in the Navy sometime around the 60's.
Feel free to PM me with any other questions.
- Thread Starter
- #4
Kosho, I notice use the name Kosho, are you a student of Kovar, Jucnick, Tracy's or Mitose? The reasons I ask is that is not the same family tree that see on other sites. Mr. Bishop I have sent two emails to the Mitose Kosho Ryu, and know one seems to want to give me any information on Tony Bowles.
Sir, I am not a member of either style but I must ask Why do you want this information. What is it you are looking for exactly and why? Perhaps if you answer these questions someone else may be more willing to answer your question.
Thanks
sheldon
Thanks
sheldon
kosho
3rd Black Belt
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2006
- Messages
- 992
- Reaction score
- 7
I train under Hanshi Bruce Juchnik and others under his teachings.
My main teacher that I weekly train with is John Evans Sensei.
The family tree that I posted was from this web site:
http://www.kenponet.com/flame/tree/m/james_mitose.html
and I clicked on names until I found the name the person here was looking for. As for my Screen name It was not taken so I use it.
I enjoy Kempo/Kenpo and all things that stem from it.
Kosho
I will be talking with Hanshi Juchnik some time this week and can ask him the name and history behind it if you would like...
My main teacher that I weekly train with is John Evans Sensei.
The family tree that I posted was from this web site:
http://www.kenponet.com/flame/tree/m/james_mitose.html
and I clicked on names until I found the name the person here was looking for. As for my Screen name It was not taken so I use it.
I enjoy Kempo/Kenpo and all things that stem from it.
Kosho
I will be talking with Hanshi Juchnik some time this week and can ask him the name and history behind it if you would like...
- Thread Starter
- #7
I've studied Kajukenbo many years ago got my green belt. I have been in Riverside Ca. for alittle while and was thinking of getting back into it. These question that I'm asking are, I guess you can say I'm doing a back ground check. I want to know the truth about who and when did he get his black belts from. Before I go to study with anyone I will ask these same questions. Mr. Bishop said that he studied in the 60's in Hawaii under Edmond Louis and has I think a 9 degree in Kajukenbo, then I see he has a 7 degree from Mitose. I'm confused because everyone (by What I've been reading on this site a other ones) not everyone but several people are stating that they have degrees from this person and a degree from that person. Don't you first have to get a black belt before you get a degree. I have tryed several times to contact Thomas Mitose by Email know one will answer my questions.
i
i
Thank you for explaining why you wanted the information
I don't have the answer to the original posting but I can respond to Kosho's post to help clarify. All the people listed above received their black belt from Soke Thomas Mitose. Definitely not Arnold Golub. If you check out the family tree on Mitose's website, all the names under Thomas Mitose received their blackbelt under him. For the names that have a little subdivision of names in smaller font under them, that means those were their students that received black belts under them. Don't know if anyone is really interested or not but thought I'd throw this out there.
http://www.kosho-ryu.com/Family-Tree/family_tree.html
- Thread Starter
- #10
Email Mitose Kosho Ryu someone replyed stating he never received a black belt under Tom Barro/Mitose. They said that they are a brown belt under Tom Barro when he was in Daly City and said Tony Bowles only got his blue belt and then left the school. Debbie the oldest daughter was the one that taught him. SO I'm not sure if he is even a black belt that would mean all his student aren't black belts. I guess I won't be checking out anyone of those schools that related to him.
I could care less about Tony's connection to Kosho, but I find this statement hard to believe. Every time I've seen Tom Mitose in the last 15 years or so, he's been accompanied by Tony. In fact here's a picture from last saturdays San Diego Grand Nationals tournament. There may be some questions about the length and intensity of Tony's Kosho training, but his position within Tom's Kosho organization is not in question.
Kembudo-Kai Kempoka
Senior Master
Ayup. And he's been wearing that pendant for a while, now, too. I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be as tight if there was any question of position or placement.
D.
D.
koshojoe
White Belt
..."but I find this statement hard to believe. Every time I've seen Tom Mitose in the last 15 years or so, he's been accompanied by Tony. In fact here's a picture from last saturdays San Diego Grand Nationals tournament. There may be some questions about the length and intensity of Tony's Kosho training, but his position within Tom's Kosho organization is not in question."
This is absolutely true. I am a former student of Grandmaster Bowles, and can attest to his proficiency as a teacher. Watch out for his hands!!!
In Kosho-Ryu, the last time I checked (Dec 26, 2005), he was promoted to Shichidan 7th Degree.
"Bowles Martial Art Academy" was in operation here in San Diego since 1991, as stated on the website
http://www.bowleskajukenbo.com/index.htm.
But he actually has been teaching since 1985. His training began in the 60's while touring in the East (Navy), and later found himself state-side training. Sorry if I can't give more details on this - it's been awhile and I don't want to mis-quote anything.
In Kajukenbo, his affliation is with Sijo Emperado. He trained under the late Joe Halbuna. Other details, I'm sure Professor(?) Bishop could say.
Sincerely,
Joe Morrill
This is absolutely true. I am a former student of Grandmaster Bowles, and can attest to his proficiency as a teacher. Watch out for his hands!!!
In Kosho-Ryu, the last time I checked (Dec 26, 2005), he was promoted to Shichidan 7th Degree.
"Bowles Martial Art Academy" was in operation here in San Diego since 1991, as stated on the website
http://www.bowleskajukenbo.com/index.htm.
But he actually has been teaching since 1985. His training began in the 60's while touring in the East (Navy), and later found himself state-side training. Sorry if I can't give more details on this - it's been awhile and I don't want to mis-quote anything.
In Kajukenbo, his affliation is with Sijo Emperado. He trained under the late Joe Halbuna. Other details, I'm sure Professor(?) Bishop could say.
Sincerely,
Joe Morrill
- Thread Starter
- #14
Well Joe you need to go back to Tony Bowles and tell him to set the records straight. There is NO way in hell that he ever trained with the late Joe Halbuna. THATS A FACT!
- Thread Starter
- #15
What part of the statement don't you believe. That someone said that he didn't receive his black belt.I could care less about Tony's connection to Kosho, but I find this statement hard to believe. Every time I've seen Tom Mitose in the last 15 years or so, he's been accompanied by Tony. In fact here's a picture from last saturdays San Diego Grand Nationals tournament. There may be some questions about the length and intensity of Tony's Kosho training, but his position within Tom's Kosho organization is not in question.
So what you seen him with Tom in the past 15 years, so has everyone else. There's people that been seen with Tom longer than that. Does that make them all black belts. NO!
Mr, Bishop you received your black belt from Gary Forbach(good man) which I think was one of Al Reyes 1st black belt. Mr. Forbach did a couple of interviews with Emperado and in those interviews Emperado was angry because people were out there saying they received the rank pf Professor, he said he never gave certain people that rank. Do you believe him?
You know and everyone else knows if you give a little money you can get any rank you want and that has always been the problem with kajukenbo. We were hoping since everyone else thinks that Kajukenbo is a bunch of garbage, that Kosho would be different. But I guess they just joined the can. Its sad to say.
I'm not trying to be a smart ***,I was just trying to see who was going to tell the truth and looks like know one wants to.
The only person Tony Trained with was with Toms oldest daughter Debbie. Which he received his blue belt. Upper rank were helping her teacher classes since Tom was out doing other things.
So, all they want to do is answer back with a picture at a tournament last week. BIG DEAL WHAT DOES THAT PROVE. Oh, see here I am with my teacher. THAT BS.
I'm sure Tony flew him down just to say here he is or maybe it was to give him a quick lesson. Better yet, give him a DVD on 10 easy steps to Kosho Ryu.
Length and Intesity- NONE
Position within Tom's Kosho organization is a question.
You said he's a 6th-7th under Edmond Louis then they parted and now he's a 9th degree. Gee, I wonder how he go that, is it because he's in a picture with Emperado or is it because he's good friends with Deichi?
Now He's telling his students that he trained with the late Joe Halbuna. That would mean he trained with his teacher. What a joke, now he's really going to piss some people off.
- Thread Starter
- #17
What pendant are you talking about? The only time you see Bowles wearing that same t-shirt is when Tom is around.What wouldn't be pretty tight his t-shirt, thats all I see.
Yep. Don't know why Tom would claim him as a black belt, if he didn't recognize him as one.
I know Tom, do you? No I wouldn't think that anyone who has ever hung around Tom is one of his black belts.
But I also wouldn't think Tom would let those accompanying him in public wear a black belt and his patch unless the rank was legitimate.
Actually I went up to 3rd degree under another instructor before I became one of Gary Forbach's students.
Of course I believe Sijo Emperado. I've had many, many conversations with him and know him very well. But I don't see what that has to do with this discussion about Tony's Kosho rank.
Who's "we". Let's see, you claim to have been a green belt in Kajukenbo? But you know all this for a fact? Or are you listening to some rumors and innuendo from some equally uninformed people?
Sure there are some people that have been promoted before their time or for political reasons? Welcome to the martial arts. Show me a martial art that doesn't have that, to one extent or another.
But again, what does this have to do with your question about Tony's rank and relationship with Kosho?
I think the people who answered you gave as honest a answer as they could. Whether it was 100% accurate, depends on their source of information.
If the member here who claimed to be Tony's former student told you what he was told when he was a student, then he's being honest. Who ever gave him the information may not have been totally honest with him. But their's no need to attack the member 's honesty here.
You know all this to be fact? From a reliable source? If you do, why the need to confirm it here with less reliable sources?
The first answer I gave you was to contact Tom or Tony to get your answer. Have you talked to either man? Not sent unanswered emails to their websites. Have you talked to them?
Nobody knows what the relationship between 2 people is except those 2 people. If it's that important to you, find a way to talk to Tom. He's not a hermit. Go to just about any tournament around the Bay area, and he'll be there. Or the big Kajukenbo events in Las Vegas. Although I will respect Tom's privacy and not give you his phone number, you could make some calls to his people and get in touch with him. I'm sure if someone was parading around misrepresenting themselves as his black belt, he'd want to clear up the misunderstanding.
OK, you need to vent your bitter feelings toward Kajukenbo again. Done. Now back to the topic of Tony Bowles rank in Kosho.
Don't know if his former student was mistaken, or was trying to say that Tom was a student of Joe Halbuna, which is true. Or that it is possible that Tony also got to train some with his teacher's teacher. But I've never heard Tony or any of his people claim that Tony was a Halbuna student.
After this post, I'm trying to understand what your intent is? You came on here asking for information on Tony Bowles. Very few people here know him, or even heard of him, so you got very little information. That doesn't make any of the members here dishonest. No one here is trying to hide anything. They just don't know, or their telling you the little they do know.
You said the reason you were looking for the information was because you were looking for a place to train. Well, your obviously not happy with the information you found, so don't train there. There are many other schools to choose from.
Your allowed to ask questions here, and people are allowed to give honest first hand experience answers.
We do not allow "fraud busting" here. And we do not allow any attacks on people or organizations based on rumor or innuendo.
koshojoe
White Belt
I suppose the only way you're going to get an answer is to ask him yourself. Second hand information from a third party can twist the facts (albeit unintentional); ever played that game where one person in the circle says something, and by the time it's comes around, it's totally different from the original source? As for his training with Joe Halbuna, I don't recall how long, what ranks (if any) were awarded, or if he received a certification to teach from him. If my memory serves me correctly he said, he "trained" with him. Incidently, so also did Soke Thomas Mitose. It's not unusual for martial artist to cross train in various "styles". And, if an established reputable teacher has listed a student on their "tree" as a black belt, who am I to question it? There is no universal standard in the U.S. for verifying if someone is a certified instructor or not. Though I understand there have been several attempts to do so - none stuck.
I can not verify anything GMaster Bowles says, but I do know one thing: His teaching is effective. I have no doubt he is an excellent teacher, dare I say, he's a master.
In your post May 11th, you said, "you were doing a back ground check...Before (you) go to study with anyone." Are you thinking of training with GMaster Bowles, or one of his instructors, and who may that be?
You also replied to me: "There is NO way in hell that he ever trained with the late Joe Halbuna. THATS A FACT!" Can you explain why?
Mr.NGMA
Yellow Belt
I have a certificate signed by Soke Mitose as well as his daughter, and I wear a gold Kosho Ryu Penadant, and can rank up to brown belt in Kosho Ryu.yet my name isn't on their list on their site either.....it doesn't change who I am.
That doesn't mean that someone who isn't on that list isn't recognized as black belts under Soke Mitose. As for Soke's daughter teaching the lessons.....
I can attest that anyone trained by Thomas Mitose's family absolutly knows Kosho Ryu. If Soke Mitose acknowledges their teaching abilities, then that is ok by me.
That doesn't mean that someone who isn't on that list isn't recognized as black belts under Soke Mitose. As for Soke's daughter teaching the lessons.....
I can attest that anyone trained by Thomas Mitose's family absolutly knows Kosho Ryu. If Soke Mitose acknowledges their teaching abilities, then that is ok by me.
