Achieved shodan for Kajukenbo in 86

firegoggles

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As a young man I studied Kajukenbo(I've checked some of the material and it did seem I learned the real deal the correct forms and takedowns etc)
Due to lifes unforseen circumstances I no longer have any certificate(I know what your thinking please read on eheh).I have no kajukenbo schools around me here in Cincinnai.The sensie that taught me was a guy named Jim Green and claimed he learned Kajukenbo form Tracy's Kenpo people I will list his credentials here.

"
Sensei Jim Green: 35 years teaching experience licensed certified Kenpo Instructor.

Studied under: Sensei Roy Tomason(Shorin ryu Karate), Sensei Sunny Johnson of Tracy's Kenpo Karate, Sensei Elmer Lewis of Tracy's Kenpo Karate, Sifu Ben Dacascos brother of Al Dacascos, Sensei Jimmy Mitchell Tracy's Kenpo Karate, Sensei Richard Willett of Tracy's Kenpo Karate, Sensei Mike Roberts of Tracy's Kenpo Karate"


Ok with that said like alot of schools at the time it was booming some people were moved up in rank too quickly some however were not and worked hard I was even one of the elite that was chosen to teach others.I lived in the dojo. I really feel I was one of the "hardworkers" I still possess all my kicking/punching ability evern after years of laying off.I can execute for the most part "picture perfect" heel hooks , crescent kicks etc.. np at all.. said all that to say this.I have returned to Kajukenbo and like many other people have added jiu-jitsu in with my previous Kajukenbo.Looking around and seeing how rare my degree in kajukenbo was.I would like to have my credentials and ones that will be honered ANYWHERE!how would I go about doing this?Considering Jim Greens place on the tree allegedly taking from Tacys Kenpo was my Black belt legit if so why doenst his school advertise kajukenbo now?(thats why I posted here first instead of asking Jim Green to simply make me a replacement certificate.I was just afraid due to some politics it may not be legit now?keep in my mind i have not been following the politics of what went on for years now.I am willing to even retest and feel confident enough to commit to even traveling half way accross the country to retest(perhaps ill review the wko tapes lol).But seriosly I was heart broken to think that perhaps my hard earned belt didn't count .. please tell me im wrong and that Jim Green had the authority to give me the rank of Shodan in Kajukenbo in Hamilton,Oh around 1986.
Firegoggles
 

Twin Fist

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ok, if I read this right, you lost your certificate, but it was in Kaju, even though your teacher was primarily a Kenpo instructor.

Ok, contact Sifu Ben Dacascos, if he promoted Jim Green to BB rank in Kaju, we might be willing to discuss issuing you a cert.

IF that doesnt work, he will be able to tell you what you need to do.
 

Danjo

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As a young man I studied Kajukenbo(I've checked some of the material and it did seem I learned the real deal the correct forms and takedowns etc)
Due to lifes unforseen circumstances I no longer have any certificate(I know what your thinking please read on eheh).I have no kajukenbo schools around me here in Cincinnai.The sensie that taught me was a guy named Jim Green and claimed he learned Kajukenbo form Tracy's Kenpo people I will list his credentials here.

"
Sensei Jim Green: 35 years teaching experience licensed certified Kenpo Instructor.

Studied under: Sensei Roy Tomason(Shorin ryu Karate), Sensei Sunny Johnson of Tracy's Kenpo Karate, Sensei Elmer Lewis of Tracy's Kenpo Karate, Sifu Ben Dacascos brother of Al Dacascos, Sensei Jimmy Mitchell Tracy's Kenpo Karate, Sensei Richard Willett of Tracy's Kenpo Karate, Sensei Mike Roberts of Tracy's Kenpo Karate"

Ok with that said like alot of schools at the time it was booming some people were moved up in rank too quickly some however were not and worked hard I was even one of the elite that was chosen to teach others.I lived in the dojo. I really feel I was one of the "hardworkers" I still possess all my kicking/punching ability evern after years of laying off.I can execute for the most part "picture perfect" heel hooks , crescent kicks etc.. np at all.. said all that to say this.I have returned to Kajukenbo and like many other people have added jiu-jitsu in with my previous Kajukenbo.Looking around and seeing how rare my degree in kajukenbo was.I would like to have my credentials and ones that will be honered ANYWHERE!how would I go about doing this?Considering Jim Greens place on the tree allegedly taking from Tacys Kenpo was my Black belt legit if so why doenst his school advertise kajukenbo now?(thats why I posted here first instead of asking Jim Green to simply make me a replacement certificate.I was just afraid due to some politics it may not be legit now?keep in my mind i have not been following the politics of what went on for years now.I am willing to even retest and feel confident enough to commit to even traveling half way accross the country to retest(perhaps ill review the wko tapes lol).But seriosly I was heart broken to think that perhaps my hard earned belt didn't count .. please tell me im wrong and that Jim Green had the authority to give me the rank of Shodan in Kajukenbo in Hamilton,Oh around 1986.
Firegoggles

I see that you actually list your ranking as a shodan in Kajukenbo. What is your name? From looking at your instructor's website, it's difficult to tell what he teaches exactly. Are you saying that your certificate specifically said Kajukenbo on it?
 

Danjo

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Martin,
Well, I called Sensei Jim Green today and had a long talk with him. Very nice man. He now lives in Tennessee and has since 1984 when he left OH "for good" according to him (two years before you said you got your black belt from him in 1986). He says that though he did train with Ben Dacascos back in the early to mid 1970's, that he never got black belt from him, nor has he ever issued rank in Kajukenbo. He has a 7th in Kenpo and rank in Aikido. So, according to him your rank in Kajukenbo could not be legitimate since he was never authorized to issue rank in Kajukenbo. So you might want to change your rank designation in your profile.

Sorry for the bad news.
 

Todd Reiner

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Martin,
Well, I called Sensei Jim Green today and had a long talk with him. Very nice man. He now lives in Tennessee and has since 1984 when he left OH "for good" according to him (two years before you said you got your black belt from him in 1986). He says that though he did train with Ben Dacascos back in the early to mid 1970's, that he never got black belt from him, nor has he ever issued rank in Kajukenbo. He has a 7th in Kenpo and rank in Aikido. So, according to him your rank in Kajukenbo could not be legitimate since he was never authorized to issue rank in Kajukenbo. So you might want to change your rank designation in your profile.

Sorry for the bad news.

Outstanding job Danjo.
 
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firegoggles

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Martin,
Well, I called Sensei Jim Green today and had a long talk with him. Very nice man. He now lives in Tennessee and has since 1984 when he left OH "for good" according to him (two years before you said you got your black belt from him in 1986). He says that though he did train with Ben Dacascos back in the early to mid 1970's, that he never got black belt from him, nor has he ever issued rank in Kajukenbo. He has a 7th in Kenpo and rank in Aikido. So, according to him your rank in Kajukenbo could not be legitimate since he was never authorized to issue rank in Kajukenbo. So you might want to change your rank designation in your profile.

Sorry for the bad news.
I would not normally cover something like this so publicly however due to losing the certificate(and something I don't think you guys are really getting is the fact I lost this document years and years ago that why I couldnt swear to which it said on it Kaju or Kenpo )I know from your viewpoint your thinking how can he not know what it said but I had many documents of achievement for many different accomplishments as a martial artist even as a youth so I just wanted to throw that in so you understood that as the actually certificat in my hand its been years and years like over 15 eheh so if you want to go to any school around here as a black belt you gotta prove that you are so upon being challenged to produce the document by a local school before going on the dojo floor as a black belt and honestly was thinking about training super hard to try and move up and become a teacher in Ciny we need a good dojo in my area soo bad.. anways I began the journey for all to see.I have nothing to hide what so ever.Turns out my certification is in Kenpo but was taught two styles at once and upon being reminded of certain kata names I realized Jim Green was right he literally taught me both styles at one time I knew all the forms for both Kenpo and Kajukenbo regardless of knowing the material the bottem line is Jim Greens a certified kenpo instructor not Kajukenbo so I do stand corrected on that point ,but I'm telling ya guys I know the materail and thats all there is to it .. here is the details about what I found out this evening sorry it's all a run on sentence it has been a long time since school and I could stand to brush up my writing skills in a big way never the less here is the post...

Thanks for your follow up.Your call prompted Sensie Jim Green to call me (I had left my
phone number on his machine).I'm not sure what was said between you two.But when I
spoke to him this evening 4/24/08 as I expected there was some politics around the
teaching of kajukenbo at that time and I really didn't get a clear answer other than my
certificate was in kenpo and not kajukenbo.All I could gather is Jim Green DID learn
kajukenbo from someone at Tracy's that is on the Kajukenbo family tree.Jim was
teaching it at that time just as additional knowledge on top of the Kenpo,again he said he
was teaching 3 styles then.As far as the time frame I'm sorry I very well may have
miscalculated the year I do remember concerns about me not being 18yrs old yet so
that makes sense for the year if you look at my birth date in my profile that does make
sense.I'm a person of integrity and I would never misrepresent.I recall having ten
years at martial art already as a very young man, some of its a blur I'll admit :) but I have done this stuff as long as I can remember.I'm the kind of person that looks like hes doing a Kata when he makes coffee eheheh I really have issues with everything being a technique lol!Ahem.... Back to my point

Jim told me on the phone tonight that he was teaching 3 styles back then but his
certificates did reflect Kenpo under Tracy's Kenpo so we are related to the Kajukenbo
tree. :).I would like to add that after some severe questioning from Jim Green( I even
had to tell him the make and model of the car he drove then ,his wifes name and a
few other questions that only I could know)just to prove who I was!!After that Jim Green
opened up to me and knew good and well who I was and laughed joyfully and asked
how I had been etc..(he should have at least acknowledged he knew me to you unless he was a little unclear during your phone call which seem to be the case when I spoke to him?)he went on to say that it would be no problem to reissue rank for me once
he figured out who I was and so on.. so that was good to hear.

I also submit to you in the spirit of humility he referred to me as one of his gifted students saying that I truly
was good even back then and that he looked forward to seeing me again.I'll admit that tiny moment of recognition felt good with all my hard work hanging in the balance.. ya know what I'm saying?..
I will be making arrangements to travel to Sensie Jim Greens dojo personally to see
this thing through to the end.Hopefully I can get down there in the next couple
weeks.And hopefully I will be impressive enough to earn higher rank time will tell(like
many others I have added the ground game to my fighting abilities and made me much
more well rounded fighter but it's a work in progress).

I think from here pursuing higher rank in Kenpo is the wise choice since my goal is to
teach again in the long run, however I do prefer Kajukenbo's street oriented angle and I'm
actually determined to become recognized by the real Kajukenbo family as at least 1st
Dan in Kajukenbo as well.Cincinnati really needs a 3rd Dan Kajukenbo instructor in a bad way
though , perhaps one day...
I will say this I have a certain resolve that is unbreakable ,once my sights are set on something I press toward it with all my will in the flesh and
in the spirit.The unfair life factor is this.Again I'm in Cincinnati Ohio and there are no Kaju schools here.So I'm thinking if I were to submit a video just to take a look at me to someone like yourself or whomever would be appropraite to view it rank wise if they would take a look
of me executing every single take down Kaju had up through black belt , all the kicks all
the pinions ALL requirements executed full force(yea btw see the forms I mention they
were pinions when I did it see what I'm saying)and maybe even throw in breaking
techniques and a weapons Kata(tonfa and bo staff were my choice for weapons Kata)
perhaps someone will see that i truly do know the Kajukenbo system as well and would
at least consider allowing me to test in.And I mean seriously looking sharp in all areas
how could anyone refuse me?(well i guess they could but why?)If I know the material
and have been in martial arts since I was 7 years old(started in judo then) I would think
sir that the leaders in Kajukenbo would be compelled to honer my request once you seen my dedication and
love for the system of Kajukenbo.
I guess one day at a time though. I'm in no hurry, but
please remember my story because in the near future I and with all my heart plan to
seize hold of the goal that I have envisioned.

Oh I'm fully aware of the instinct of the higher ranks to protect the integrity of the art of Kajukenbo and thats another thing I like about it
honestly.Before you allow that thought to manifest itself and reflexively brush this post off due to your affections and I dare say perhaps a bit protective prone stance on matters of this nature(I understand though), allow me to leave you with this "golden
nugget" to convey to you what I do understand about the Art and spirit of Kajukenbo
outside of the physical, and this is that last thing I have to say about it....

"if you think you're beaten, you are. If you think you dare not, you won't, if you'd like to win, but think you can't, almost an cinch, you won't. For life's battles don't always go to the stronger or faster man. For sure as fate, the man who wins is the man who thinks HE CAN!" Grandmaster Choo

I Think I Can,
Martin B.

P.S. I will change my rank on my profile but hopefully..... it will change soon!!! :)
 

John Bishop

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We know who's who in Kajukenbo. And Kajukenbo is one of the few systems whose name is trademarked.
There are NO video training & testing programs in Kajukenbo. You want a Kajukenbo black belt, you train with a Kajukenbo instructor for the YEARS it takes to get one.
The idea that someone would even want to receive rank without putting in the training time with a qualified instructor to earn it, is offensive to the vast majority of us in Kajukenbo.
 
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firegoggles

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We know who's who in Kajukenbo. And Kajukenbo is one of the few systems whose name is trademarked.
There are NO video training & testing programs in Kajukenbo. You want a Kajukenbo black belt, you train with a Kajukenbo instructor for the YEARS it takes to get one.
The idea that someone would even want to receive rank without putting in the training time with a qualified instructor to earn it, is offensive to the vast majority of us in Kajukenbo.

I'm sorry you have misunderstood me sir and I'll admit its all to easy to start thinking out loud on a forum and I got way overzealous forgive me.But you see now after all these conversations on this board I have to live with knowing I was cross trained between kenpo andkajukenbo.But I'm sure because of the very trademark issues you mentioned no one is teaching it now that shouldn't be.....
So under that premise was I requesting only to be looked at to be considered to see if I was even eligible for a real test I certainly didnt mean just say here ya go buddy heres your rank thats a revolting thought to me as well.Heck I'm expecting a brutal test from Jim Green this time If I can test for 2nd degree(big if ) his tests are no joke believe me they go on and on until you have nothing left(then you stand in a horse stance for 3 hours until you legs fall off:))
Ya forums are not like conversation they tend to bring out the inner mans thoughts more than just normal face to face conversation.You caught bits of my inner man speaking is all.And I agree it was most inappropriate in hind site if taken out of context.I want to offend no one especially you :).I was wrong about what was on the certificate anyway(been years since i held it) but I did work hard and had a panel of black belts above 3rd degree promote me to the rank of Shodan.It would be more than unfair to say I dont have training time in.I have been in martial arts since age 7 I'm 39.I'm out of here guys thanks for all the help glad we got to the bottem of it.Please send Cincinnait an instructor and id be happy to start as a white belt again when it comes down to it all of us know its the man not the belt any way.
Peace,
Martin
 

Danjo

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I'm sorry you have misunderstood me sir and I'll admit its all to easy to start thinking out loud on a forum and I got way overzealous forgive me.But you see now after all these conversations on this board I have to live with knowing I was cross trained between kenpo andkajukenbo.But I'm sure because of the very trademark issues you mentioned no one is teaching it now that shouldn't be.....
So under that premise was I requesting only to be looked at to be considered to see if I was even eligible for a real test I certainly didnt mean just say here ya go buddy heres your rank thats a revolting thought to me as well.Heck I'm expecting a brutal test from Jim Green this time If I can test for 2nd degree(big if ) his tests are no joke believe me they go on and on until you have nothing left(then you stand in a horse stance for 3 hours until you legs fall off:))
Ya forums are not like conversation they tend to bring out the inner mans thoughts more than just normal face to face conversation.You caught bits of my inner man speaking is all.And I agree it was most inappropriate in hind site if taken out of context.I want to offend no one especially you :).I was wrong about what was on the certificate anyway(been years since i held it) but I did work hard and had a panel of black belts above 3rd degree promote me to the rank of Shodan.It would be more than unfair to say I dont have training time in.I have been in martial arts since age 7 I'm 39.I'm out of here guys thanks for all the help glad we got to the bottem of it.Please send Cincinnait an instructor and id be happy to start as a white belt again when it comes down to it all of us know its the man not the belt any way.
Peace,
Martin

Well, I still think you don't understand the idea. Sensei Green is a Kenpo man. He doesn't give out rank in Kajukenbo. Also, Kajukenbo isn't like the military where we can send out instructors to a given area nor is it like McDonalds where we can send out a manager to open a McDojo franachise in your town. We're Ohana, which means family and someone either lives in your area or not. If there isn't someone in your area, then you will have to drive to where one is to train. The idea of "fairness" of there not being someone there is not applicable in this case. It's like saying that it's not fair that there isn't a Four Season's restaraunt in your town, or a Getty Museum in your town. They are located where they are located, and you have to go to where they are at if you want to experience them.

As to the rest...

I trained in Shotokan from 1978 to 1985 and years later still remembered the name of the art. I didn't think that my training had been in Shorin Ryu, or Kyokushin Kai twenty years later. Kajukenbo and Kenpo don't look anything like each other on a certificate, and since Sensei Green said that he never issued rank in Kajukenbo, I find it hard to imagine how the error in memory happened.

Last night, Sensei Green said to me that he'd never heard of you and that you certainly were not one of his black belts because he knew all of the people he'd ever given a black belt to. What with the mistaken name on the certificate. The fact that the certificate is missing. The fact that you were off by at least two years on when you got the certificate, etc., it sounded like something that needed to be looked into.

However, I have absolutely no vested interest in whether someone has a black belt in kenpo or not. Since the Kajukenbo issue is settled, then we'll see where you go from here.
 
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jks9199

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If you learned from a kenpo instructor, who had a dab or two of kajukenbo, you learned kenpo. Why would you want to call it something else? Wouldn't that be disrespectful to your original teacher in kenpo? It doesn't matter how good you are or were. You didn't learn kajukenbo -- you learned kenpo, perhaps with a little kajukenbo on the side. If you eat a plate of lasagna with a side of tortilla chips instead of garlic bread, that doesn't make it a Tex-Mex meal. It's still Italian.

And the idea that you'll just "show a video that you're good and should be ranked..." Sorry, that's crap. That sort of thing is exactly what has led to some of the really questionable ranks out there... Testing -- especially black belt testing -- must be in person. There are plenty of people out there who do great with their own training partners -- but suck when the face someone different. Or do fine when they train alone -- but can't put it together under the pressure of being in front of a grading official.
 

davido53

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Just happened upon this site after a google search for Jim Green and Kajukenbo.

Sifu Green awarded me a shodan in kajukenbo back in 1979. At least that was my understanding...that it was kajukenbo. However, nowhere on my certificate is the word "kajukenbo".

I recall Jim saying he studied at Tracy's with Joe Louis.

Jim was a pretty good martial artist and had some very good students.
 

Danjo

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Just happened upon this site after a google search for Jim Green and Kajukenbo.

Sifu Green awarded me a shodan in kajukenbo back in 1979. At least that was my understanding...that it was kajukenbo. However, nowhere on my certificate is the word "kajukenbo".

I recall Jim saying he studied at Tracy's with Joe Louis.

Jim was a pretty good martial artist and had some very good students.

Hmmmmmm..... Well since the certificate doesn't say Kajukenbo on it, and since we've already cleared up the issue of whether he was authorized to issue rank in Kajukenbo (the answer was "no"), then you ought to change your rank designation to whatever your certificate DID say in your profile, since no one in Kajukenbo is going to recognize your rank.

By the way, it was Joe Lewis that was the Karate guy, not Joe Louis, the Heavyweight champion of the 1940's.
 

davido53

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My profile does not show any ranking, only that I had some training in kajukenbo.
 

John Bishop

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Just happened upon this site after a google search for Jim Green and Kajukenbo.

Sifu Green awarded me a shodan in kajukenbo back in 1979. At least that was my understanding...that it was kajukenbo. However, nowhere on my certificate is the word "kajukenbo".

I recall Jim saying he studied at Tracy's with Joe Louis.

Jim was a pretty good martial artist and had some very good students.

Here we go again. Someone got a Kajukenbo black belt from a instructor who says he is not himself a Kajukenbo black belt, has never taught Kajukenbo, and certainly has never promoted anyone to black belt in Kajukenbo.
And of course you can't prove your claim because no where on your certificate does it state "Kajukenbo".
Oh, and by the way "Kajukenbo" went to Chinese titles around 1968, so there are no "shodan" ranks in Kajukenbo.
 

Danjo

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My profile does not show any ranking, only that I had some training in kajukenbo.

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From whom? "Primary art and ranking" means that which you have the highest rank in. Since you got a "Shodan" back in 1979, take a look at that cert and see what it says that shodan was in. Whatever it is, THAT should be the art listed.
 

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could it be possible that this man was awarding rank in kaju and knows he was not really ranked to be doing so so he denies that he was doing it...
 

John Bishop

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could it be possible that this man was awarding rank in kaju and knows he was not really ranked to be doing so so he denies that he was doing it...

Anything's possible. But it always sends up red flags when someone claims a rank, but just can't seem to find their certificate, or remember what style was printed on it.
Or, "However, nowhere on my certificate is the word "kajukenbo". And, "I recall Jim saying he studied at Tracy's with Joe Louis.".
 

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