Kajukenbo / Kosho Ryu Kenpo

[James Kovacich]

I didn't know exactly what to call this thread but the video is called Kajukenbo Kosho Ryu Kenpo
Back to our Roots Seminar
Kajukenbo Kosho Ryu Trick Technique

Is their connection to Kaju or Kosho or both?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1y2Hsothgrc&mode=related&search=

 

[John Bishop]

I didn't know exactly what to call this thread but the video is called Kajukenbo Kosho Ryu Kenpo
Back to our Roots Seminar
Kajukenbo Kosho Ryu Trick Technique

Is their connection to Kaju or Kosho or both?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1y2Hsothgrc&mode=related&search=

It's a joint effort between Kajukenbo grandmaster Jaime Basquez and Kosho Ryu master Paul Yamaguichi. "Kajukenbo Kosho Ryu Kenpo" is the name of their organization.

 

[James Kovacich]

Is that thee Yamaguchi who signed Chows cert or maybe his son?

Does it resemble Kajukenbo as you practice? I thought his hands were OK but I don't like the ninja-like footwork.

 

[John Bishop]

Is that thee Yamaguchi who signed Chows cert or maybe his son?

Does it resemble Kajukenbo as you practice? I thought his hands were OK but I don't like the ninja-like footwork.

It is Paul Yamaguichi. Even though he was James Mitose's black belt, is not senior to Chow. He actually got a black belt from Chow in 1952, before training with Mitose, and getting a second black belt. Your probably thinking about Thomas Young, who signed Chow's certificate.

It's mostly Kajukenbo, with some Kosho Ryu mixed in. The "ninja-like footwork" is from the Kosho escaping arts, not Kajukenbo.

 

[James Kovacich]

You're right I was thinking of Thomas Young. It's hard to judge on 2 minutes especially when evrythings is slow and for demonstation.

The only bad thing I saw with the hands was that he lowered his hands a bit. But he also used his hands from the low position as part of the following technique. And the technique when performed at full speed, things like dropping the hands may not occur.

Is it in line with Kajukenbo black belt material? That type of handwork (although differant mainly because footwork alone will change the techniques) is closer to what I do today, than the colored belt Kaju I trained as a teenager. It definately has a Gung Fu influence compared to what I trained which was more Karate-like.

Did it evolve more recently or maybe the advanced material was their all along?

 

[BlackCatBonz]

The stuff on that video is kosho footwork and handwork.
Like I've said in previous posts, there are no real set techniques in kosho, you just make it up on the fly and stick to the principles.

 

[Matt]

I didn't know exactly what to call this thread but the video is called Kajukenbo Kosho Ryu Kenpo
Back to our Roots Seminar
Kajukenbo Kosho Ryu Trick Technique

Is their connection to Kaju or Kosho or both?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1y2Hsothgrc&mode=related&search=

That was pretty nice. I especially liked the part in the middle where he did Karazenpo / Shaolin Kempo combination 6 (or 1 depending on who you ask) the old way and then tacked on what looked like a variation on combination 28.

It's the left parry / right hammer to the biceps with the front kick, followed by the hook kick to the midsection and then the reverse crescent to the head. We usually do the second kick as a sweep though. Too bad there's no technical overlap between Karazenpo and Kajukenbo, so I must have imagined it.

Matt

 

[James Kovacich]

The stuff on that video is kosho footwork and handwork.
Like I've said in previous posts, there are no real set techniques in kosho, you just make it up on the fly and stick to the principles.

I think it's safe to assume that Mitose didn't teach that type of handwork.

Where did it come from?

 

[John Bishop]

It's the left parry / right hammer to the biceps with the front kick, followed by the hook kick to the midsection and then the reverse crescent to the head. We usually do the second kick as a sweep though. Too bad there's no technical overlap between Karazenpo and Kajukenbo, so I must have imagined it.

Matt

Anythings possible. But since there are no hook kicks, and reverse crescent kicks in any of the "Original Method" techniques, the resemblance probably comes from the fact that Prof. Ortega's teacher (his father GM Cherry Ortega) was also a tae kwon do black belt, like GM Pesare was.

 

[BlackCatBonz]

I think it's safe to assume that Mitose didn't teach that type of handwork.

Where did it come from?

how do you know?

 

[Matt]

Anythings possible. But since there are no hook kicks, and reverse crescent kicks in any of the "Original Method" techniques, the resemblance probably comes from the fact that Prof. Ortega's teacher (his father GM Cherry Ortega) was also a tae kwon do black belt, like GM Pesare was.

That's a very good point. Actually, Fred made #28 up, but that's what it looks like. The first part (the parry, hammer to the bicep and front kick) I know I've seen before.

Matt

 

[John Bishop]

The first part (the parry, hammer to the bicep and front kick) I know I've seen before.

Matt

Quite possibly. It's Kajukenbo "Punch Counter #1". It's also the opening move for Punch Counter #2, #3, #4, #17, and "Two Man Counter #2".

Here's the man that created the technique. And no, it's not Fred Villari.

 

[Danjo]

That was pretty nice. I especially liked the part in the middle where he did Karazenpo / Shaolin Kempo combination 6 (or 1 depending on who you ask) the old way and then tacked on what looked like a variation on combination 28.

It's the left parry / right hammer to the biceps with the front kick, followed by the hook kick to the midsection and then the reverse crescent to the head. We usually do the second kick as a sweep though. Too bad there's no technical overlap between Karazenpo and Kajukenbo, so I must have imagined it.

Matt

The Combo #6 i know is just a front kick to the groin. #1 is the inside parry, with the trap, claw and back hand to the face throat grab and sweep.

Which one are you talking about?

 

[Danjo]

how do you know?

Parker, Chow, Young and Anton Krucky all said Mitose used Okinawan style basics and that's what he taught. One-punch-kill stuff. Young, Chow and Krucky all said that most of what Mitose would do was lecture about morals.

 

[Matt]

Quite possibly. It's Kajukenbo "Punch Counter #1". It's also the opening move for Punch Counter #2, #3, #4, #17, and "Two Man Counter #2".

Here's the man that created the technique. And no, it's not Fred Villari.

Great Picture!
Precisely the move I was talking about. I was pretty sure it was an official 'Kajukenbo technique'. Back in the earlier days of Karazenpo / SKK that was 'combination one' or 'combination 6' depending on who you ask. These days in the Villari / USSD schools, it's combination 6, but they've removed everything but the front kick. Can you see why so many of us are interested in 'getting back to our roots'?

As far as the part Fred Villari made up, I meant the 'hook kick-reverse crescent kick' part. In fact, if it's SKK and it's above about #26 it was made up / borrowed by Villari, or made up by one of his 'senior guys' back in the 80's. He sort of dished them out in tens - as in "hey Bob- go make up 50-60." So much for the thousands of year old / Shaolin Temple propaganda.

But anyway, nice clip. Fun to watch.

Matt

 

[Matt]

The Combo #6 i know is just a front kick to the groin. #1 is the inside parry, with the trap, claw and back hand to the face throat grab and sweep.

Which one are you talking about?

Ready for some numbering idiocy? As far as can be pieced together (you wouldn't think it would be that hard as many of the players are still alive):

What you had as #1, was actually #6, but was much shorter, and went to the outside. What you had as #2 was #7, but was done off a right rear hook punch. What you had as #6 was #1, but included pretty much the entire Kajukenbo Punch Counter #1, but is now just "Front kick cross and cover" Since Villari. What you had as #7 used to have an outward double parry as late as Nick Cerio, which he kept and called "Buckling the Branch" in his NCK curriculum (if I remember correctly.).

Easy to follow, eh?

Matt

 

[Danjo]

Ready for some numbering idiocy? As far as can be pieced together (you wouldn't think it would be that hard as many of the players are still alive):

What you had as #1, was actually #6, but was much shorter, and went to the outside. What you had as #2 was #7, but was done off a right rear hook punch. What you had as #6 was #1, but included pretty much the entire Kajukenbo Punch Counter #1, but is now just "Front kick cross and cover" Since Villari. What you had as #7 used to have an outward double parry as late as Nick Cerio, which he kept and called "Buckling the Branch" in his NCK curriculum (if I remember correctly.).

Easy to follow, eh?

Matt

Very interesting. Yeah it's odd how they arranged it. Plus, they still teach #6 and #7 first, so why they re-numbered them is the question.

 

[Matt]

Very interesting. Yeah it's odd how they arranged it. Plus, they still teach #6 and #7 first, so why they re-numbered them is the question.

Basically, they wanted to in$ert a little my$tery so it was harder to gue$$ what you were learning next to encourage you not to wait to te$t.

Also they could tell 'who was whose' by which ones you knew. The various splinters have changed the order many times.

Matt

 

[John Bishop]

Basically, they wanted to in$ert a little my$tery so it was harder to gue$$ what you were learning next to encourage you not to wait to te$t.

Also they could tell 'who was whose' by which ones you knew. The various splinters have changed the order many times.

Matt

Why am I not $urpri$ed

 

[Hand Sword]

Master Bishop,

Who is kicking Master Forbach in the picture?