Joint Locks

Kyosanim

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This is a forum for joint locks. Which one is your favorite? What locks do you find the most reliable? Which ones do you have trouble with? Do you prefer standing or prone locks?

Tell us all about it. Better yet tell what art you practice, What level your at, and if you think the lock is good for sport, self defense, or even just no good at all.

Who knows you may get some tips that make that rusty old lock you barely remember the dodge viper of your garage instead of the broke down f-150.

My personal experience is that elbow locks are the easiest to apply in most situations, though I have recently discovered a few new ways to implement wrist locks that makes me a bit more confident in them.

So name your poison, and lets see if we all can't learn something.
 

Aikicomp

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This is a forum for joint locks. Which one is your favorite?

Which ever one works for the application that is presented to me.

What locks do you find the most reliable?

All of them in the right time and place.

Which ones do you have trouble with?

None. I will always find one that my opponent will ask me to put them in.

Do you prefer standing or prone locks?

Standing, prone, sitting, kneeling, ect. Doesn't matter to me.

Tell us all about it. Better yet tell what art you practice,

An American style of Ju-Jitsu combining the arts of Aikido, Karate, Judo and Savate.

What level your at,

Godan

and if you think the lock is good for sport,

Depends on what rules and locks the sport allows

self defense,

ABSOLUTELY

or even just no good at all.

c'mon you've got to be kidding.

Who knows you may get some tips that make that rusty old lock you barely remember the dodge viper of your garage instead of the broke down f-150.

My personal experience is that elbow locks are the easiest to apply in most situations, though I have recently discovered a few new ways to implement wrist locks that makes me a bit more confident in them.

So name your poison, and lets see if we all can't learn something.

Joint locks, as I said above are quite effective given they are applied properly, at the right time and on the right joint with the correct amount of control, timing and technique.

Also to get a joint lock purely in and of itself is quite difficult and requires a full and total understanding of the lock, body mechanics, anatomy, physics, balance, movement and years and years of practice. That is why you will (as I do) most likely pre-requisite a lock with some type of atemi or metsubushi before applying your selected lock. Joint locking is in my experience is more of a feeling kind of thing rather than just a strengh kind of thing. You must also be able to adapt to many different types of locks in a logical order in case the first, second or third lock fails.

Hope this helps

Michael
 
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Kyosanim

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Joint locks, as I said above are quite effective given they are applied properly, at the right time and on the right joint with the correct amount of control, timing and technique.

Also to get a joint lock purely in and of itself is quite difficult and requires a full and total understanding of the lock, body mechanics, anatomy, physics, balance, movement and years and years of practice. That is why you will (as I do) most likely pre-requisite a lock with some type of atemi or metsubushi before applying your selected lock. Joint locking is in my experience is more of a feeling kind of thing rather than just a strengh kind of thing. You must also be able to adapt to many different types of locks in a logical order in case the first, second or third lock fails.

Hope this helps

Michael



It was more along the lines of a probability question. Ya know.. which locks have you found to have a higher percentage rate of success in matches or whatever you do. Personally I have the most success with the elbows, and shoulders.

I'm not entirely sure if your post was supposed to be rude or not with it being in text and all, but god forbid you should take the time to make more than a vague answer. It seems to me you found the post to be rather useless. If so why bother answering? I don't mean to be rude but it is sometimes more than a little hard to gauge what people are conveying between the lines as it were on a board like this. Being a black belt I am aware that the proper tech be applied at the proper time. Obviously I won't throw a round kick when my opponent is three inches away from me. I apologize if you weren't trying to be rude, but at fifth degree it seems like you would either answer in a more detail oriented manner ( I am assuming you are an instructor at godan) or just not bother with it viewing it as unworthy of your time.
 

MJS

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It was more along the lines of a probability question. Ya know.. which locks have you found to have a higher percentage rate of success in matches or whatever you do. Personally I have the most success with the elbows, and shoulders.

I'm not entirely sure if your post was supposed to be rude or not with it being in text and all, but god forbid you should take the time to make more than a vague answer. It seems to me you found the post to be rather useless. If so why bother answering? I don't mean to be rude but it is sometimes more than a little hard to gauge what people are conveying between the lines as it were on a board like this. Being a black belt I am aware that the proper tech be applied at the proper time. Obviously I won't throw a round kick when my opponent is three inches away from me. I apologize if you weren't trying to be rude, but at fifth degree it seems like you would either answer in a more detail oriented manner ( I am assuming you are an instructor at godan) or just not bother with it viewing it as unworthy of your time.

IIRC, I think I may have said something of a similar nature as Aikicomp, in other posts, in which you asked about locks. Here are my thoughts:

- I'm really not a fan of the 'high percentage' comments, because what works for you, will be different from me, will be different from my teacher, different from another class mate, and so on. IMO, they all have the potential of being high percentage, but I feel that is too much of an open ended question to really give you a solid answer.

- As I said, I really dont go looking for a lock. If the persons hand, finger, or arm presents itself, then I'll attempt to take advantage of it. Again, this is what a lock flow teaches us...to flow from one lock to another; to give us a variety of locks to train.

- What are my favs? Dont really have a fav. I try to train all of them, so in the event I need to use one, it'll feel more comfortable for me.

- Art I train: Kenpo 3rd degree black. Modern Arnis 1st degree black. I do BJJ when I can, although its been a while since I've rolled. No rank in that.

- Are locks good for Sd and sport? Of course. Some of the higher ranking Arnis Masters in my group cross train in BJJ, so during some seminars, they've mixed in some BJJ along with the Arnis flavor. The locks, IMO, can and should be able to be adapted accordingly. In other words, if I were to enter a BJJ competition, where small joint manipulation is most likely against the rules, but an armlock is fine, my goal is to get a submission, not necessarily break the arm. In todays MMA events, fighter safety is high on the list, so chances are, the ref would stop the fight long before a break happens. Not saying it still couldn't happen. For SD..sure, if someone was really trying to cause me harm, then sure, bust up the finger, joints, etc.

I hope that answered your questions. :)
 

shesulsa

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There's a couple other threads recently posted about joint locks, aren't there?

Anyway, the thing I'm working on again (as I refresh my training after a long hiatus) is the *flow* of moving from one lock to another. This is really useful if your first attempt doesn't fly, you move into another one - and if you get them all to work, it keeps the opponent guessing making control easier ... sometimes. ;-)
 

Tanaka

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Joint locks, as I said above are quite effective given they are applied properly, at the right time and on the right joint with the correct amount of control, timing and technique.

Also to get a joint lock purely in and of itself is quite difficult and requires a full and total understanding of the lock, body mechanics, anatomy, physics, balance, movement and years and years of practice. That is why you will (as I do) most likely pre-requisite a lock with some type of atemi or metsubushi before applying your selected lock. Joint locking is in my experience is more of a feeling kind of thing rather than just a strengh kind of thing. You must also be able to adapt to many different types of locks in a logical order in case the first, second or third lock fails.

Hope this helps

Michael

Of course you flow depending on what your opponent gives you.

Doesn't mean you can't have favorite locks. I think one of my favorite ones to pull off is the Omoplata.
 
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Kyosanim

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IIRC, I think I may have said something of a similar nature as Aikicomp, in other posts, in which you asked about locks. Here are my thoughts:

- I'm really not a fan of the 'high percentage' comments, because what works for you, will be different from me, will be different from my teacher, different from another class mate, and so on. IMO, they all have the potential of being high percentage, but I feel that is too much of an open ended question to really give you a solid answer.

- As I said, I really dont go looking for a lock. If the persons hand, finger, or arm presents itself, then I'll attempt to take advantage of it. Again, this is what a lock flow teaches us...to flow from one lock to another; to give us a variety of locks to train.

- What are my favs? Dont really have a fav. I try to train all of them, so in the event I need to use one, it'll feel more comfortable for me.

- Art I train: Kenpo 3rd degree black. Modern Arnis 1st degree black. I do BJJ when I can, although its been a while since I've rolled. No rank in that.

- Are locks good for Sd and sport? Of course. Some of the higher ranking Arnis Masters in my group cross train in BJJ, so during some seminars, they've mixed in some BJJ along with the Arnis flavor. The locks, IMO, can and should be able to be adapted accordingly. In other words, if I were to enter a BJJ competition, where small joint manipulation is most likely against the rules, but an armlock is fine, my goal is to get a submission, not necessarily break the arm. In todays MMA events, fighter safety is high on the list, so chances are, the ref would stop the fight long before a break happens. Not saying it still couldn't happen. For SD..sure, if someone was really trying to cause me harm, then sure, bust up the finger, joints, etc.

I hope that answered your questions. :)


Well I suppose I had not thought about it that way. Thank you for putting it that way.
 

Drac

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This is a forum for joint locks.
Which one is your favorite?.

All of them

What locks do you find the most reliable??.

All are reliable.

Which ones do you have trouble with?.

The Z-lock

Do you prefer standing or prone locks?.

Prefer standing, but have done them on the ground

Better yet tell what art you practice?

Combat Hapkido

What level your at and if you think the lock is good for sport, self defense, or even just no good at all.

Instructor..Not sure about sports application..EXCELLENT for self-defense.
 

Aikicomp

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It was more along the lines of a probability question. Ya know.. which locks have you found to have a higher percentage rate of success in matches or whatever you do. Personally I have the most success with the elbows, and shoulders.

I'm not entirely sure if your post was supposed to be rude or not with it being in text and all, but god forbid you should take the time to make more than a vague answer. It seems to me you found the post to be rather useless. If so why bother answering? I don't mean to be rude but it is sometimes more than a little hard to gauge what people are conveying between the lines as it were on a board like this. Being a black belt I am aware that the proper tech be applied at the proper time. Obviously I won't throw a round kick when my opponent is three inches away from me. I apologize if you weren't trying to be rude, but at fifth degree it seems like you would either answer in a more detail oriented manner ( I am assuming you are an instructor at godan) or just not bother with it viewing it as unworthy of your time.

That's pretty harsh.....I'm sorry you thought the answers were vague and did not get the answers you were looking for from me, however, I answered them as honestly as I could. Although, the one comment about locks being any good at all....that IMO was a ignorant question and deserved the response I gave.

No....I was NOT trying to be rude, did NOT find it useless and DID think it worthy of my time or like you said I would not have responded.

You have to give people the benefit of the doubt on boards like these just for the reason you stated about conveyance.

I hope you show the same attitude when you respond to Drac's post....which btw, are very similar to mine.

Now on to details:

Locking in gen.... Know what....nevermind.

You assumed right off the bat that I was for some reason being rude to you, then you make sarcastic remarks like I'm some idiot and have not been doing MA's 27 yrs. and concentrating on locks for 20 of those, made assumptions about my intent, competence and dedication as an Instructor.

Then you apologize? Unbelievable.

Sorry I didn't help you. Good luck in your training.

Michael
 

eggg1994

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i train in bjj which i am a orange belt in and i had a background in aikido which i did for 6 months. now with my expirence with joint locks certainly depends the situation. now in the art i take we usually throw our attackers to the ground before we secure a joint lock and i would go more for elbow locks then i would for wrist which my elbow lock is called the standing armbar after the attacker is on the ground, but it depends on where i can get the leverage to use the joint lock. i have learned a wrist lock from aikido and i saw that lock that was a similar version of the aikido wrist lock. im not an expert anyway so thats how much expirence i have with joint locks.
 

Cirdan

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1st Kyu in Ju Jutsu and Wado Ryu Karate.

I love training joint locks, having a pretty high tolerance for pain I am often used as a dummy to demonstrate them.

I don`t think I have any favourites, I prefer striking to locks when it comes to self defense but they are invaluable in a lot of situations.

When rolling I use leg locks quite often, people are often don`t expect them.
 

Steve

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Which one is your favorite?

I'm more partial to chokes than joint locks, but I like them all.

What locks do you find the most reliable?

The one that my opponent isn't expecting.

Do you prefer standing or prone locks?

Prone, typically.

Tell us all about it. Better yet tell what art you practice,

BJj

What level your at,

purple belt.
 

clfsean

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This is a forum for joint locks.

Well awrighty then...

Which one is your favorite?

The one I get locked on

What locks do you find the most reliable?

See above

Which ones do you have trouble with?

The one I don't

Do you prefer standing or prone locks?

The ground is not to place for me to go.

Tell us all about it. Better yet tell what art you practice, What level your at, and if you think the lock is good for sport, self defense, or even just no good at all.

I teach Choy Lee Fut. I study Chen Taiji & Xingyi. I've studied aikido & taijutsu before for a manipulation background to lead up to these.

Who knows you may get some tips that make that rusty old lock you barely remember the dodge viper of your garage instead of the broke down f-150.

I'll take the F150 since I can run over the Viper when it's parked.

My personal experience is that elbow locks are the easiest to apply in most situations, though I have recently discovered a few new ways to implement wrist locks that makes me a bit more confident in them.

Depends on the situation. I can't say lock "x" will do the trick, or if any lock will, or if any lock is needed. It's just another part of the tool kit. I can't limit my training to try to do that. It's all action & body movement.

So name your poison, and lets see if we all can't learn something.

Tequila straight... no lime, no salt, no worries.
 

Gaius Julius Caesar

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My favorite would be Ikyu, as I can get it from commited punches, reaches to grab and stabs at the face with a good degre of success and it flows into other locks if need be and throws as well as is good to assist you in bouncing your opponent off of walls, door jams and other parts of the enviroemnt.

2nd Fav is what we call a Kote Giash 8, pretty much a udaeguramae (What BJJ calls an Americana, Catch calls a Key lock) but standing and if you drop strait down when it's on you destroy the elbow, lower and upper arm and possably the shoulder and drop them on their head.

3rd is Nikyu, great for hand chokes, lapel grabs and as something you tend to flow into when they try to wiggle out of Kensetsu waza.

I am a 4th Dan in Combat/Aiki Jujutsu and crosstrain in FMA/IMA. The parries ansd feeds of Pekiti Tarsia has made capturing limbs from strikes and weapons attacks easier and a nice strikeing- joint lock, takedown/throw flow that I find better for most modern types of assults versus traditional JJ capture and entry methods.

Shugyo!
 

xfighter88

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My favorite choke is a guilloutine (or however you spell it)
Favorite arm lock is the Kimura it's great for submitting and passing.
Favorite leg lock is the heel hook.

I perfer joint locks on the ground. In actual self defense I would use them to break the guy then stand up. (don't know if he has buddies around). I perfer stand up striking and using ground skills to get back up.

I have trouble with rubber guard type moves since I have tree trunks for legs.

I practice Taekwondo (Black Belt), BJJ (Purple Belt), and Muay Thai No belt just some fights. Work in law enforcment so we use a lot of pressure point manipulation but I am not a fan of it for do or die situations.

To the haters...yeah there are lots of varying locks for lots of situations, but I can get a kimura from almost anywhere on the ground or on the feet. I can grab an ankle from almost anywhere as well. Guillatines work from lots of places too. In actual sudden physical confrontations it pays off to have 2 or 3 moves that are your go to moves. In high stress situations it is hard for your brain to "pick" the appropriate lock for a given situation. You will go back to whatever moves are the easiest for you. In competition or practice you don't have the same fear/stress stimulation so it is it is easy to think through your techniques. So don't dismiss this guy right away he is just looking for some insight not dismissal.

:soapbox:
 

K-man

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My favorite would be Ikyu, as I can get it from commited punches, reaches to grab and stabs at the face with a good degre of success and it flows into other locks if need be and throws as well as is good to assist you in bouncing your opponent off of walls, door jams and other parts of the enviroemnt.

2nd Fav is what we call a Kote Giash 8, pretty much a udaeguramae (What BJJ calls an Americana, Catch calls a Key lock) but standing and if you drop strait down when it's on you destroy the elbow, lower and upper arm and possably the shoulder and drop them on their head.

3rd is Nikyu, great for hand chokes, lapel grabs and as something you tend to flow into when they try to wiggle out of Kensetsu waza.

I am a 4th Dan in Combat/Aiki Jujutsu and crosstrain in FMA/IMA. The parries ansd feeds of Pekiti Tarsia has made capturing limbs from strikes and weapons attacks easier and a nice strikeing- joint lock, takedown/throw flow that I find better for most modern types of assults versus traditional JJ capture and entry methods.

Shugyo!
I'm with you except the ikkyu. That is the one I have difficulty with. My favourite is sankyu. Amazing how many situations present for its application and it leads to a very effective takedown. Nikyu and kote gaeshi also really useful.
icon14.gif
 

Steve

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My favorite choke is a guilloutine (or however you spell it)
Favorite arm lock is the Kimura it's great for submitting and passing.
Favorite leg lock is the heel hook.

I perfer joint locks on the ground. In actual self defense I would use them to break the guy then stand up. (don't know if he has buddies around). I perfer stand up striking and using ground skills to get back up.

I have trouble with rubber guard type moves since I have tree trunks for legs.

I practice Taekwondo (Black Belt), BJJ (Purple Belt), and Muay Thai No belt just some fights. Work in law enforcment so we use a lot of pressure point manipulation but I am not a fan of it for do or die situations.

To the haters...yeah there are lots of varying locks for lots of situations, but I can get a kimura from almost anywhere on the ground or on the feet. I can grab an ankle from almost anywhere as well. Guillatines work from lots of places too. In actual sudden physical confrontations it pays off to have 2 or 3 moves that are your go to moves. In high stress situations it is hard for your brain to "pick" the appropriate lock for a given situation. You will go back to whatever moves are the easiest for you. In competition or practice you don't have the same fear/stress stimulation so it is it is easy to think through your techniques. So don't dismiss this guy right away he is just looking for some insight not dismissal.

:soapbox:
You sound like one of our black belts, a street level narcotics officer. He comes up with heel hooks and toe holds from just about anywhere he wants.
 

Daniel Sullivan

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I don't really have any favorites. I train in a multitude of joint locks in order to ingrain the principles behind them into my training. I don't focus on them as specific techniques.

I train to make good use of my particular build, so I suppose that there are some techniques that will work better for me against most people. However, I like to be prepared for the possibility of dealing with someone who isn't 'most people' as well.

I practice hapkido and am a black belt.

Daniel
 

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