Locking the Joints, striking and Emphasis

Mekugi

Orange Belt
Joined
Dec 27, 2003
Messages
91
Reaction score
3
Location
Yokkaichi, Japan
Hi all,

I would like to inquire to all of you magnificently diverse kenshi here on the board regarding the emphasis of joint manipulation and locking within your style of Kem(n)po.

Is there a great deal of emphasis within your style, or is it tertiary?

How does it "originate" or from what type of attack/defense?

Do you have kata specifically designed to handle joint attacks and controls?

Do you have striking techniques designed to dislocate the joints?

You have kyusho (pressure points) that accompany the locking/manipulating of the joints?

Do you have joint locking techniques that attack the legs?

Anyway, I would love to hear what you all have to contribute and appreciate the input you have....

Always,
 

Dark Kenpo Lord

Brown Belt
Joined
Feb 22, 2004
Messages
425
Reaction score
48
Location
So. Cal.
Main Entry: 1ter·tia·ry
Pronunciation: 't&r-shE-"er-E, -sh&-rE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -ries
1 [Medieval Latin tertiarius, from L, of a third] : a member of a monastic third order especially of lay people
2 capitalized : the Tertiary period or system of rocks

not exactly sure what you mean here.

DarK LorD
 
OP
Mekugi

Mekugi

Orange Belt
Joined
Dec 27, 2003
Messages
91
Reaction score
3
Location
Yokkaichi, Japan
1. third, 3rd, tertiary -- third in order (coming next after the second and just before the fourth in position)

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=tertiary

Ya missed number one, and I am pretty sure I wasn't talking about cenobites rocks/geological time periods, color theory or spectrums. Generally, when a dictionary defines words, it goes by order of most common use.

You know....as in "coming in third", "not in the top two", "not of the first or second order", "something not numbered 1 or 2 but before 4". Compare it to the use of "primary" or "secondary" in modern nomenclature.

ANYWAY, whatcha think there?

Dark Kenpo Lord said:
Main Entry: 1ter·tia·ry
Pronunciation: 't&r-shE-"er-E, -sh&-rE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -ries
1 [Medieval Latin tertiarius, from L, of a third] : a member of a monastic third order especially of lay people
2 capitalized : the Tertiary period or system of rocks

not exactly sure what you mean here.

DarK LorD
 

The Kai

Master of Arts
Joined
Apr 15, 2004
Messages
1,925
Reaction score
31
Mekugi said:
Hi all,

I would like to inquire to all of you magnificently diverse kenshi here on the board regarding the emphasis of joint manipulation and locking within your style of Kem(n)po.

Is there a great deal of emphasis within your style, or is it tertiary?

I would say it is about 40% incorporated so it is secondary

How does it "originate" or from what type of attack/defense?
From grabs we target wrist and elbow locks, punching/striking and weapon technique we target the elbow and shoulder (except knife we target the wrist to control the blade)

Do you have kata specifically designed to handle joint attacks and controls?
we use small sets (Would love to see a kata based on counters though)

Do you have striking techniques designed to dislocate the joints?
Sure

You have kyusho (pressure points) that accompany the locking/manipulating of the joints?
Yes at a begining level it is simple - oppom=nent resists hit him for the distraction. at advanced level we look at specific points to cause a reaction or the weaken the joint. Or if the jointlock open up certain pressure points we take advantage there

Do you have joint locking techniques that attack the legs?
Mostly from a seated position or again the kicking techique
Anyway, I would love to hear what you all have to contribute and appreciate the input you have....

Always,
I hope this starts a great thread should be a interesting topic!! Thanks
 

The Kai

Master of Arts
Joined
Apr 15, 2004
Messages
1,925
Reaction score
31
we have about a 40% mix

Against grabs we target the wrist and elbow. Punchs/strikes and weapons we target the elbow shoulder, except knife we try to control the wrist
We do short sets to counter locks but not a full kata (be great to see one)

pressure points set up, or reinforce the lock

Leglocks come from seated positions or against kicks
Thanks
 

John Bishop

Master Black Belt
MTS Alumni
Joined
Mar 21, 2002
Messages
1,157
Reaction score
71
Location
Southern Calif.
The "Kajukenbo" style has many techniques borrowed from Danzan Ryu Jujitsu, Judo, and the Filipino arts (escrima).
Joint locks, throws, and sweeps are added to combination techniques to basically complete the technique. A Kajukenbo motto is "par, stun, put away", which basically means to, block, strike, takedown, and finish off your attacker.
Because of the Filipino premise of "limb destruction", many of our joint locks and arm bars are applied to dislocate the joint, rather than take the attacker down. That way the attacking limb has been rendered useless, and is one less weapon for the attacker to use.
Because stance work in jujitsu and karate/kung fu are differant, the jujitsu techniques are used in karate stances. This allows the combination of strikes, kicks, and joint locks to "flow" without major changes of stance and positioning. Example would be a outward wrist lock (what the jujitsu people call a "koto gashi"). As the attacker punches, instead of stepping back with your right leg and turning to the right side in a jujitsu type stance to make the catch, you turn to the right side into a cat stance. Then when you make the catch, you pivot back forward to make the wrist lock. Now your in a fighting stance ("forward bow" type stance) with the wrist lock applying pressure to the attackers shoulder and elbow. Prior to continuing the twist on the wrist lock to the point of take down, you dislocate the attackers knee with a front snap kick. The kicking leg then crosses over to your left and you continue the rotation of the wrist until the elbow disjoints, or the attacker goes down. If he crumbles to the ground after the knee break, then you just got the same result with less effort.
Most of us in Kajukenbo feel that the addition of jujitsu and judo techniques to our kenpo just helps enhance the total effectiveness of the system. In fighting you don't want to have holes in your system. You don't want to not be prepared if a fight goes to the ground, or if you have to fight multiple attackers in a stand up fight.
 

DavidCC

Master of Arts
Joined
Apr 5, 2004
Messages
1,938
Reaction score
31
Location
Nebraska
I was going to try to describe how our style does it (Shaolin Kempo) but Mr. Bishop just did a great job of doing exactly that :)
 

The Kai

Master of Arts
Joined
Apr 15, 2004
Messages
1,925
Reaction score
31
I wish I would have saw Mr Bishop's post before i went!!
 
OP
Mekugi

Mekugi

Orange Belt
Joined
Dec 27, 2003
Messages
91
Reaction score
3
Location
Yokkaichi, Japan
This is interesting and thanks so much for sharing!

I have found that there are several ways to apply kotegaeshi, something that is prevelant within Japanese "unarmed" grappling". Henka (variation) is something that should flow from kata, and keeping that in mind kata is just a bowl in which we put lessons; essentially you learn the "mannerisms" of the style and they are not necissarily an end to a means.

After learning kata well, and understanding the principle being taught, you can break away into henka. It is essential for "reality" or actual physical motion. A technique can be expressed in a myraid of different ways and from a number of different situations after one has a grasp of the underlying principle, and knowing where and when it would be applied is the hard part.

For instance, if you were locked up arm in arm with another person (not unlike what one sees in a boxing match) and one attempts to sway you back by putting your hand into your face. It would be simple just to reach up and apply kotegaeshi in the situation in an attempt to gain the advantage.

My two cents,

-R


John Bishop said:
Because stance work in jujitsu and karate/kung fu are differant, the jujitsu techniques are used in karate stances. This allows the combination of strikes, kicks, and joint locks to "flow" without major changes of stance and positioning. Example would be a outward wrist lock (what the jujitsu people call a "koto gashi"). As the attacker punches, instead of stepping back with your right leg and turning to the right side in a jujitsu type stance to make the catch, you turn to the right side into a cat stance. Then when you make the catch, you pivot back forward to make the wrist lock. Now your in a fighting stance ("forward bow" type stance) with the wrist lock applying pressure to the attackers shoulder and elbow. Prior to continuing the twist on the wrist lock to the point of take down, you dislocate the attackers knee with a front snap kick. The kicking leg then crosses over to your left and you continue the rotation of the wrist until the elbow disjoints, or the attacker goes down. If he crumbles to the ground after the knee break, then you just got the same result with less effort.
 
T

TIGER DRAGON FIGHT

Guest
in the kempo system i study alot of the club and knife attacks we use have alot of joint locks to render the limb useless. attacking the thumb to the wrist on up to the shoulder. there are open hand techniques that will move into leg locks. one technique for example teaches how to subdue an opponent into a figure 4 lock and finishing them off by attacking there spine or head. i definately enjoy the jiu jitsu side of kempo.
 
Top