Join an organization or not?

[Tengu]

Are there any real advantages to joining an organization (for example the ITF, WTF, etc?) Is it acceptable to start and run a martial art school and not belong to any organizations?

 

[HM2PAC]

What will joining the organization do for you and your students?

Can you provide those things without an organization?

 

[Twin Fist]

I opened my school and I am not a member of any MA related group, other than MartialTalk and The Kajukenbo Cafe

I dont need an org.

no one does

 

[HM2PAC]

TF has given good advice on this.

Organizations tend to have objectives that may or may not suit the individual practitioner. Be careful.

Organizations may also be able to offer your students things that you can't provide on your own.

Look at them objectively. I'll say it now....stay away from the ATA unless you have a real good reason to join in with them.

 

[dancingalone]

It's not an org that you should be concerned about joining. It's about the opportunity to train with and learn from people who might be able to better yourself through contact with them. Are the senior members of the org actually impressive martial artists? Will you really have opportunities to study with them or is this just some silly need to belong and spread some dollars around?

 

[exile]

It's not an org that you should be concerned about joining. It's about the opportunity to train with and learn from people who might be able to better yourself through contact with them. Are the senior members of the org actually impressive martial artists? Will you really have opportunities to study with them or is this just some silly need to belong and spread some dollars around?

Let me give you a concrete example of dancingalone's point, drawn from our own ranks. Out own Brian van Cise heads an outfit called Instinctive Response Training, which you can find out about from the link in his signature. I say 'outfit' rather than 'school' deliberately, because IRT, from what I can tell, is a bit larger in scope than what 'school' suggests; it has established cordial and productive teaching relationships with numerous other MA programs, in the spirit of cross-fertilization and synergy amongst different approaches to the common goal of practical self-defense. Brian's done TKD, I believe, and is a dedicated student of Bujinkan Ninjutsu; but he's put together a comprehensive program which is on friendly terms, so far as I can see, with every MA (TMA or otherwise) out there, looking to synthesize ideas about practical fighting skills. IRT seems to connect to other schools and do reciprocal seminars and joint training as a matter of course. This same thing is done on a big scale in the UK under the auspices of the BCA—the British Combat Association—whose senior instructors are some of the toughest/most combat-expert TMAists in Europe. In both cases, the idea is the organization is the framework for an imaginative and rigorous SD-based curriculum; it's there not to issue fancy certificates or jumped-up dan ranks or megalomanic-friendly titles—I don't think you'll find too many self-promoted 'Grandmasters' wandering around in either IRT or the BCA!—but to provide both wide and deep education in the realities of applied MAs, by connecting students to a network of experienced, proven professionals with complementary skill sets and teaching methods. That's what an organization should be doing for you.

Can you think of a traditional KMA organization which does that? If not, my instinct would be to leave well enough alone. If you can find one which does anything like that, go for it full tilt. But I suspect you won't find much along those lines—not just in Korea, but in most other places. It's not a common model... I wish it were, and maybe some day it will be. One can hope....

 

[Brad Dunne]

If you don't use or need a promotional ranking system for your students, then IMO you don't need an organization. If you do use the above, then you either have to have someone or something to go to in order to progress as your students reach your ranking level. There are many organizations out there that mostly just want your money, but there are some that will afford additional training to their membership. Just have to do an indepth search for what you need and want.

 

[searcher]

I don't feel that anyone has to or needs to belong to an association.

I joined the USMAA, for the annual gatherings that allow for several days of training in a tons of different styles. If it were not for that, I would not belong.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Are there any real advantages to joining an organization (for example the ITF, WTF, etc) ?

Yes, depending on what you want out of the org. An organization can provide the following:

Insurrance
Credential (some customers just gotta see it)
Tournament circuits
Potential portability of rank for your students.

Some customers just can't wrap their head around a school not being 'acredited' by some organization. If you're school is for profit and if you are looking to do this as your main or only means of income, the org is a very helpful credibility builder.

Often, organizational membership means teaching a specific curriculum, either exclusively (as is the case with the ATA) or as your core plus whatever you feel like adding (as with the Kukkiwon).

Different orgs offer varying levels of support to their member schools. The ATA is probably the most hands on in terms of providing school owners with resources.

Is it acceptable to start and run a martial art school and not belong to any organizations?

Kind of a two part question. I'll answer the stated question: absolutely it is acceptable. But you need to make sure that you have covered yourself in terms of insurrance, licensing, acceptable grading criteria and such on your own, all things that an org may help with (depending on the org).

Now, for the unasked question: is it acceptable to not be certified by any organization? It can be. I am personally leary of anyone who teaches that can't show that he has trained under a qualified teacher in the art he or she teaches.

So while I wouldn't feel that your school must be associated with an organization, I would expect you to be able to tell me why you're qualified to teach and to tell me who taught you and what level you attained under their tutelage. This is especially true if you're asking for money, but I'd want to know even if you were not.

Paperwork kind of helps in this and certs from a papermill actually can hurt. Kukkiwon certification is actually verifiable on the KKW website, so if nothing else, I can determine if you hold a recognized dan rank.

Hope that helps!

Daniel

 

[mozzandherb]

The only disadvantage I have seen from previous instructors not being a part of a federation has been that they have not attended some seminars (either ITF or WTF) that might have helped them learn more about what they are teaching, especially with patterns. My first instructor is now independent, but while he was a part of the ITF he did attend many important seminars with Gen Choi and others, but now that he is independent, and as the art has evolved, unfortunately he hasn't been able to learn the newer changes in some of the patterns and this has reflected in his teaching.
It becomes very apparent in tournaments when his students are performing patterns that are not really close to the proper way. And yes it does say something about his teaching standards and even though he is a great instructor, now that he is indepedent his desire to learn and his desire to attend critical seminars is not a part of his teachings anymore.
So it does come down to the teacher, but I would have to say that the teacher has to remain aware of the teachings that are always changing and/or being modified

 

[dortiz]

Hmmmm. My son now goes to WTF school with Kukkiwon Certified teachers and one that gives Kukkiwon rank. I am sure there are good schools that are out of this program but If he is going to get the rank why not be the one that is world recognized.
I am also sure that there are great community colleges with good teachers but given the chance we will also choose a school name I know of.


Dave O.

 

[granfire]

Organizations are a business tool.
You have to find the one that suits you.

However there are more than the ITF and KKW, and a lot offer more than just a piece of paper.

ideally you get to network with other school owners who are on the same page as you are.

The ITA offers workouts, seminars, promotional artwork, flyers and brochures for their members.

On the other hand, should you decide, down the road, that the organization does not profit you as much, the split can be really ugly.

 

[ebskenpo]

Greetings to all, what all says, are possitive things and negatives, you need to have a recognized dan grade to be able to certify at your students if you dont have a recognition them the grades of your students not be recognized out of your school is symple...

Saludos a todos, como todos dijeron hay cosas positivas y negativas, necesitas tener un grado de dan reconocido para ser capaz de certificar a tus estudiantes, si no lo tienes entonces los grados de tus alumnos no tendran validez fuera de tu escuela, es simple...

 

[BrandonLucas]

Pretty much what everyone has said so far is true.

Organizations exist for business purposes...they technically should exist to actually organize the art, and to a degree they do. But, alot of times they add more confusion than order.

The dojang I belong to has no affiliations what so ever. Our instructor was taught by a direct student of General Choi, so we're technically 3rd generation students of General Choi...at least, from his cirriculum from circa 1975 or so. Our style is old ITF TKD, but we do not belong to the ITF organization. And I can tell you, our school does very well with no affiliations.

It does, however, depend on what you're looking for. If you want to simply teach self defense through the art of TKD, then belonging to an org is nothing more than something extra. If you want to be competitive with other schools nationwide and worldwide, then belonging to an org would be very beneficial.

I, myself, am against the whole competitive thing, as far as training students for competitions above self defense, or even on the same level as self defense. So, I personally have no use for orgs.

Like I said, it's all about what you're looking for. My best advice would be to do some serious research before making a decision. Know what you are or aren't getting into, 100%, before you commit to anything, and compare that with the goal you have for your school.