It Must Work...My Teacher Said It Would!

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MJS

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Sorry for not getting back to this thread sooner. Been a bit busy, but I will say that there're some fantastic replies here! :)

Now, yes, my teachers, other teachers out there...they all are teaching things that are effective. Sure, some of it could be that a student just doesn't understand a particular tech., so that would be why they'd feel that its not effective. Other times the tech. is understood, but there may be something else that they'd feel more confortable executing...you know, those 'sure shot, bread and butter' techniques, that we tend to fall back on.

And yes, for the ones who've tested their techs. in real life...sure, unless we run out, start a fight and test that way, we have to rely on testing in the dojo, with as much realism as possible.

Just like we can benefit from many of the other arts out there, we benefit from the various techs. But, I still maintain that we need to find what works for US, seeing that WE would be the one using the technique, not our teacher. We are all built differently, so what may work well for them, due to size and strength differences, does not always mean we're going to have the same ease.

My point of the thread here, was not to discredit a technique. I mean, I teach techniques to people that I'm not fond of, yet I teach them because the person learning may find that tech. to be his bread and butter move. My point of the thread was to figure out why someone would automatically assume that everything is going to work with the same ease for everyone out there.
 

Aiki Lee

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The human body hasn't changed in the past 10,000 years. A technique that is simple in nature like a hip throw or the rear naked choke should work for everyone because all human bodies have the same basic weaknesses.

I do believe a technique might not be able to be used the exact same way another person used, but if it is based on a principle that can be used in other ways it should work for anyone.
 

JBrainard

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So, why is it that people get fooled into thinking that what works for one, will work for all?

Because thier instructors are giving them false information.
My teacher has always told us that what works for him may not work for us, and visa versa. Once you reach a certain rank (1st Dan, lets say), and you've learned all of the "tools of the trade," you have to figure out what works for you and what doesn't.
 

Flying Crane

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Because thier instructors are giving them false information.
My teacher has always told us that what works for him may not work for us, and visa versa. Once you reach a certain rank (1st Dan, lets say), and you've learned all of the "tools of the trade," you have to figure out what works for you and what doesn't.

yes, but during the learning process you sort of need to go on faith that your teacher is teaching you things that are sound and will work. Of course you need to gain mastery for yourself, that's not disputed. But until you reach some level of mastery wherein you can use the material, you sort of need to take his word for it.

After all, do you argue with your teacher every time he teaches you something new? of course not. You work on it and strive to develop skill with what he has shown you. It may be some time before you are really ready to decide that something DOESN'T work for you. In the mean time, you recognize the potential in the material and you work on it.

It works for sifu/sensei, so it has potential and it can probably work for me as well. Maybe some people are too quick to toss something out and decide it doesn't work.

Some things take more time to develop, but they have a huge payoff down the road if you stick with it.

Other things have a quick and useful payoff because they are easy to use, but they may not have as great a payoff in the long run.

Sometimes it's not a bad idea to stick with the guidance of our seniors and trust their wisdom.
 

IcemanSK

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I certainly agree that some instructor/student relationships are based on blind faith...and blind faith is not helpful. I've found another issue that can be a problem is that the instructor leaves out a detail. Intentionally or unintentionally. This is especially true, in my experience, with joint locks. While an instructor may make it look easy, if the details are not explained, the student may not be able to make it "work." Then, while demonstrating this after class with a buddy, it doesn't work.

This may lead to the student's awe of the instructor, frustration of the student, or both.

If the leaving out details is intentional on the instructor's part to build up his/her mystique, it's cruel. If it's unitentional, that can be remedied.
 

mozzandherb

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I think that there is a great tendency in martial arts to copy what others are doing, I mean that's basically how we learn what we learn. Other people show us techniques and especially if you're a beginner and don't know much about martial arts it's easy to copy others and not realize that what you're doing will not necessarily help you.
In the beginning its easy to get caught up in all the different movements and believe that when a senior member of a club does a technique then it must be effective because a beginner usually looks up to a senior member and believes that they are always correct even when they aren't. So it takes time for an individual to learn that what works for one will not work for all, it takes time and practice.
 

Aiki Lee

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When it comes to a technique not working for everyone, I really think this is due to individual prefrence not the inviduals ability to perform the technique.

For example, High kicks to the head are techniques that don't work for me. It is difficult for me to kick higher than chest level, but if I practiced enough I could eventually do it no problem. Since I don't like kicking in that way, I don't train that way. Therefore those techniques "don't work" for me.

If a technique seems easy to do, that technique will likely work for you. It is the ones you don't like doing that won't work. It really all depends one where you put emphasis into your training IMO.
 

mozzandherb

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When it comes to a technique not working for everyone, I really think this is due to individual prefrence not the inviduals ability to perform the technique.

For example, High kicks to the head are techniques that don't work for me. It is difficult for me to kick higher than chest level, but if I practiced enough I could eventually do it no problem. Since I don't like kicking in that way, I don't train that way. Therefore those techniques "don't work" for me.

If a technique seems easy to do, that technique will likely work for you. It is the ones you don't like doing that won't work. It really all depends one where you put emphasis into your training IMO.
If you are training regularly then you will most likely be practicing all types of kicks, high and low, so to pick and choose is sometimes hard especially when you are a beginner. When a beginner is told to do something they tend to listen even more than senior students, so if their instructor asks them to perform a roundhouse to the head, then chances are they will try to do it. Now to pick and choose what you are good at, well that takes time because in the beginning you dont really know what you are good at, so I would stress to try and be good at everything
 

Aiki Lee

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If you are training regularly then you will most likely be practicing all types of kicks, high and low, so to pick and choose is sometimes hard especially when you are a beginner. When a beginner is told to do something they tend to listen even more than senior students, so if their instructor asks them to perform a roundhouse to the head, then chances are they will try to do it. Now to pick and choose what you are good at, well that takes time because in the beginning you dont really know what you are good at, so I would stress to try and be good at everything

I agree somewhat with you, but ultimately people will use what they think is effective, and what is effective is based on how easy that person views the technique to be.
When I studied karate, I used to practice high kicks to the head, but I didn't like doing them. I figured, if i want to kick someone i wouldn't kick higher than my own chest level because anything higher is uncomfortable.

My brother on the other hand loves high kicks so he does them all the time. He and I have different fighting philosophies so I changed to an art that suited my body structure more. I could have trained the way he did and been able to knock out people with a boot to the skull. I could have conditioned myself to fight the same way, I just didn't want to. Instead i went with something that alows me to move more naturally.
 
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MJS

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Because thier instructors are giving them false information.
My teacher has always told us that what works for him may not work for us, and visa versa. Once you reach a certain rank (1st Dan, lets say), and you've learned all of the "tools of the trade," you have to figure out what works for you and what doesn't.

Thats an interesting point. My Kenpo teacher is a bit shorter and has a more slender build than I. However, that shouldn't fool someone, because the guy hits...hard! :)

Anyways...there has been more than one time, when going thru techniques, that, due to size differences, he may do something different. Not changing the entire tech. per se, but a small change, due to physical differences. Yet that same tech. has worked for me, without change, due to my build.

Is there anything wrong with the tech? No. But, this shows that it will need to be adapted to the person doing it.
 
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