Is Tae Kwon Do useful

[TkdWarrior]

doh dude u teacher sounded like crap
goood u left him behind...
BTW TKD is soooooooooooo darn tough that not much ppl can master

well when anyone talks about Self Defense oriented then normally i wonder wat kind of self defense they want?wat u think is good self defense...?mind sharing with me(the person who started this thread, sorry for my ignorane )...

-TkdWarrior-

 

[Hollywood1340]

Okay, I've been quiet but this does it. Please not what follows are my opinions and what I've gleamed from my training in TKD. I make no excuses or apologies.

TKD is a sport ladies and gentleman. Has been from it's first naming as the Tae Kwon Do (And not by "The General" incidently). In Korea they practice in t-shirts and shorts, like we would basketball. Now I know there are exceptions, and I'll grant them, but this is what the majority of TKD is. TSD, HKD and the like were arts first, then sports. Know what your getting into when you enter a martial art. Understand what TKD in America is. I'm a Taekata myself that has fallen from the fold. It was my gateway drug and I loved it, but I've moved on into more "Self Defense" oriented arts. My TKD instructor is still my instructor. Lately I've been eying my dobak as turning lights on and off with my feet is getting harder. I've not kicked above my solar plex in class in over a month. But I want my high kicking sport oriented modern martial art. So I'm thinking I'll go back.

 

[noonesfool]

I was'nt aware there were so many bad instructors/dojangs.
As I said I don't blame the art just the person that lied to sell a product.
I was doing very well at the art in general and was making progress rapidly.
The "master"saw that and did'nt like it so he was like just do this and I'll charge you more money for a test.
It went from them showing me alot of stuff to just what was required to pass a test.
I started with a good instructor that was great and he left so kids started taking over classes.
I saw the problem after I went to the first test and scratched my head.
People that had no coordination were passing and some of the black belts were crappy and did'nt know alot of stuff they should.
The owner of the school is Korean and supposedly a grandmaster so we know he sold out for $$$.
I tested a dude at sparring witha few kung fu moves and he just looked at me and could'nt counter them.
He was one stripe away from black so I figured he should know enough.
He just said I was trying to make him look bad but in fact I wanted to see what he was being taught.
He was more frustrated than I about it because he realized he should know a bit more.
I asked what the patterns were for that we practiced and they said to pass a belt test.
To TkdWarrior in my opinion good defense is the ability to maintain control of a situation.
Criminals expect you to be scared and not fight back at all and they do not expect that you will.
Criminals in many cases are bullies and are not tough and do not want to fight you.
Criminals believe they are tough and think that they are powerful.
Why not mess with their psychology some by just making them look like the weak fools they are.
Sometimes damage to the ego is more powerful than damage to the body.
Good defense is being able to keep control and choose the level of agression.
If a person grabs you while trying to rob you chances are a good lock and throw will scare the criminal away.
If he comes back for more then you move up a notch from pain to sprain and so on.
If you knock them out from the get go then chances are they have not learned from the situation.
Criminals have one intention that is to intimidate and rob you of your dignity and personal goods so just take their dignity and they will cower.
I feel if I blatantly beat them with everything I have than I am in a way no better than them.
Another thing chances are these types of people don't have medical insurance so a hospital bill would cost tax payers money.

 

[MountainSage]

Noonesfool and others,
Never assume that any attacker is nothing less than a combination of Navy seal, MMA champion, and the devil himself. You have only a few seconds to assess the attacker and it is better to believe the worst case and have it not be true than to believe the opposite. In this day and age, we are more likely to be confronted by drug addicts, crazyies, and gangbangers, these people are not the common robbers of the past. All of your post have been great and show that there are some excellent teacher and martial artist out there today, inspite of the McDoJang. To put a answer to the original question, Is TKD useful? It is as useful as you want it to be, But more knowledge and skills is never a bad thing in moderation.

 

[KennethKu]

Originally posted by noonesfool
.......If a person grabs you while trying to rob you chances are a good lock and throw will scare the criminal away.

If he comes back for more then you move up a notch from pain to sprain and so on.

If you knock them out from the get go then chances are they have not learned from the situation.

Criminals have one intention that is to intimidate and rob you of your dignity and personal goods so just take their dignity and they will cower.

I feel if I blatantly beat them with everything I have than I am in a way no better than them.

Another thing chances are these types of people don't have medical insurance so a hospital bill would cost tax payers money.

If this is how you practice self defence, I sincerely hope you never have to confront anyone other than your newspaper delivery boy.

You gonna end up on the floor with your teeth spilling all over the place. And that is if you are lucky.

A grandmaster may have the ability to manage the escalation of use of force effectively. Please don't assume you have such capability to assess threat level that precisely.

Fighting as in self defence is as real and dangerous as it gets. If you can't avoid the confrontation, then your ONLY choice is to end the fight decisively ASAP !! You play around and you will end up dead!!

 

[white belt]

Ken is very accurate, noonesfool. I teach and practice eyes, trachea, carotid, temple, ear cavity, etc. for hands. Inside of the thigh, groin, knees, kidneys, etc. with hard shoe tip and sole. I am a TKD Instructor. Do we do WTF sport sparring? You bet. It is a humane way, besides the above light/no contact drills, to sharpen your timing and coordination. To underscore Ken's point, how easy is it to choose a gradient of force between light respectful contact and knockout/life threatening power? It is usually only one or the other. It is very hard otherwise, with a moving target. The Grandmaster or Master level is where I too would expect to see this ability concerning strikes. Joint control is a little easier to have useable gradients for the street, but you better know your stuff. It is best to use a strike before the lock or throw is attempted also. I have two such encounters come to mind where someone tried to restrain me with a less than debilitating hold or throw. I exploded free and knocked them both out HARD. If they used more pressure/conviction, the outcome would have been questionable. Better judged by twelve than carried by six. Be nice to your training partners, slam the urine out of someone who wants your health. If your Kung Fu Instructor does a 180 on what we are saying, I would do verification on this Forum with a poll. It doesn't mean he (your Instructor) would be dishonest, but not all Instuctors have had life/health threatening baptisms of fire to use as a reference. The less reference, the harder to see beyond assumption. You sound like a very good person with the best of intentions from your posts and I really admire that. There are some very skillful, knowledgeable, honest people who frequent this Forum. Good luck w/your new Instructor and school!

white belt

 

[Marginal]

Originally posted by noonesfool
I tested a dude at sparring witha few kung fu moves and he just looked at me and could'nt counter them.
He was one stripe away from black so I figured he should know enough.
He just said I was trying to make him look bad but in fact I wanted to see what he was being taught.
He was more frustrated than I about it because he realized he should know a bit more.

It also helps to remember that any MA's going to be a rather physical experience. What you put into it may not be what someone else does. They have to be able to apply what they know as well as know it. Some bring that together sooner than others from what I've seen.

 

[Sanddragon]

To Noonesfool,
Please remember that your best weapon is your brain.
You have been given many good responses here and a bit of bad advice and opinions on different styles. Many of us have been thru your situation with a bad school and though it sucks, remember you have learned something about certain schools and an art. Take that and keep moving forward like you are doing.

As others here have said learn what you can, research what you can about all the arts available in your area and find one that suits you and where you are comfortable with both the school and the instructor. You will find your place in the art and that is what is important.

As for your original question, yes TKD is a very useful art and does have it's place. There is no one superior martial art, but something to learn from all. All that said remember also to train hard but to have fun and not take yourself to seriously in what you do. :asian:

 

[karatekid1975]

Sand,

I think I will take your advice, too. I'm at a McDojang and stuck in a contract. But from what you said, I can make the best of it. Train hard. Thanks

 

[noonesfool]

We all have our paths in life and again to those that had useful information nice talking to you.
Kenneth Ku that is a nice vision but that is exactly what I am being taught how to apply the right amount and strategy for everything.
We do 2 man and alot of the stuff is extremely painful thats why you sign a waiver.
If I go into every situation thinking the worst then that is against the purpose of the teachings.
Pumping yourself up worrying causes you to lose focus and then the conflict.
I have been meditating for 10 years and I can do some pretty amazing things with my body and my mind.
The main focus of everything I'm being taught is too keep control and focus.
If you start to fight with your attacker chances are he is more scared than you are because you have just destroyed his strategy.
Everything else from there is your strategy because he is trying to get his back.
By your attacker being unfocused you have the edge on the situation.
Too me Martial Arts is more than kick and punch.....
I apply myself 100% to every move and I keep doing the move until I understand it not just know it.
If you understand your move then you need not think about it too much and you can feel the difference in force being applied.

 

[DWright]

Okay, here is my take on the self defense aspects of TKD. Please realize that Modern Arnis is my primary art, and I started TKD on a bet.

For real "personal self defense" you have to use your hands!
Look at police training, 40 hours of basic hand to hand training at the recruit level, not one kick is thrown. Why, because when you take one foot off the floor, you only have left. Makes for lousy balance.

As a fairly new student to TKD, but a long time student of Martial Art, I have stayed in the classes for the overall physical conditioning. I have lost 25 pounds since starting. The classes are grueling. I have more flexibility then I have in years, and my feet are finally reaching the target with speed and power. The main benefit that TKD has given me is endurance. And I feel that this is crucial in any confrontation. If necessary I can RUN, and keep going.

I was told by my first Sensei: There is someone out there that is bigger, stronger, faster, and better trained. Don't be afraid to run.

Just my opinions.:asian:

 

[KennethKu]

COPS are not allowed to kick people !! They are not allowed to punch you in the solar plexus. That is why they don't train to do those! COPS train to restrain you, NOT to KO you. That is the law, assuming you are in the US.

 

[KennethKu]

Originally posted by noonesfool
.......Kenneth Ku that is a nice vision .....

....If I go into every situation thinking the worst then that is against the purpose of the teachings..........I have been meditating for 10 years and I can do some pretty amazing things with my body and my mind.........

......If you start to fight with your attacker chances are he is more scared than you are because you have just destroyed his strategy.......Everything else from there is your strategy because he is trying to get his back. By your attacker being unfocused you have the edge on the situation.
Too me Martial Arts is more than kick and punch.....
I apply myself 100% to every move and I keep doing the move until I understand it not just know it.
If you understand your move then you need not think about it too much and you can feel the difference in force being applied.

First of, assuming you are not being sarcastic there, that is not a vision at all, and certainly not one of mine. What I stated is simple reality.

Real confrontation is basically a sudden out burst of extreme violence. There is no time for strategy and focus and whatever rebalancing.

I am sorry but I don't think you realize the seriousness of confrontation. I have witnessed well trained men gone down because they were not prepared for the worst. What happened was, the attacker opened up on the guy with a blast of left and right hooks in split second! The guy got hit so many times in a second, he didn't have a chance to respond. So, good luck with your step by step escalation of use of force.

You have to be prepared for the worst. Eternal vigilance is the only key to avoid being surprised.

 

[white belt]

Ken,

I thought that was a state or local level decision. You are saying there are Federal guidelines on this? Enlighten me. I was under the impression that appropriate levels of force dictated response. Why then do they carry a billy club? If a cop gets slugged, then a strike back to setup a deescalation restraint may be used in practicality. Have we really neutered our law enforcement as bad as you claim?

Concerning the posts earlier questioning using kicks for self defense. There are good times to kick and bad times to kick. There are practicaL kicks and impractical. There are good kickers and poor kickers. It's not so easy to generalize. I have used kicks in real fights to devastating effect. The sole and toe of a shoe is like swinging the back (blunt) side of an axe when used properly. The shins, knees, femoral artery tract, iiotibial band, testicles, perineum, bladder, navel, kidneys, solar plexus, etc. are little match for the common shoe tip. Usually, if they are hit solidly, they either go down or through the reflex response bend forward bringing their head to solar plexus or groin level. I don't need to point out their vulnerability at that point. A glancing blow is painful enough to have them back off and reconsider. I experienced that first hand too on a guy that I knew if he grabbed me, I was severely outweighed and then would really have a mortal situation to deal with. He grimaced, paused and hobbled away cussing at me. If you don't kick very well, then by all means go with your strengths. Mr. Lee comes to mind with that bit of common sense.

Good training to all and Happy New Year!!!
white belt

 

[KennethKu]

WhiteBelt, You are of course correct. Law enforcement is state and local authority. There is no fedearl statue prohibiting such tactic, (may be other than this thing called Civil Rights). Rather it is internal practice.

I was informed that, as a rule, police are not allowed to kick people, nor punch you in the solar plexus or get into a fistfight. Police train to restrain b/c any other technique that leave bruises (or injury) are bad for business. The creep can always lie about being abused and he has the bruises (or injury) to prove it and the Cops always lose in such case. There is a grey area involving injury sustained while resisting arrest. Which reminds me of the scene in RoboCop (forgot which one) where the creep asked "How can I help you, officer?" Robocop answered,' By resisting arrest."

As for using a Billyclub, just like in WTF, you can kick someone's brain out but you can't punch him in the face. lol Same logic huh?

 

[DWright]

Kennethku-

Having spent many years as a street cop I find your reply interesting. I wish things could be so easily explained.

Officers are allowed to punch and kick when nesseccary. I personally have thrown a well placed side kick while in uniform, and have used an asp, flashlight, and a clipboard as a striking tool. None of those incidents brought on civil rights claims, or excessive force charges. All were justified uses of force.

As for punching, we were taught not to aim for the solor plexes, because it is too easy for someone to tighten the abs. And most drunks won't feel the pain until the next day.

Leg sweeps are still commenly taught, because it is an easy way to take someone to the ground for cuffing. (If the need arises.)

Martial Arts training is invaluable to the street officer. It provides skills that the department cannot afford to. And it keeps the officers physically fit. Nothing worse than an out of shape cop.

 

[white belt]

Well, the kicking the head / punching the body premise is to ensure proper leg skill development, as well as hands. Much like the no kicking rule in Judo enforces their particular attributes development / focus. The billy club, instead of punching, would be to have an edge on a knife wielding or bare handed assailant, etc. Not to improve their clubbing attributes over kicks and punches. Of course, you already are well aware of these things. You are very tricky Mr. Ku.

white belt

 

[KennethKu]

@DWright

If you are right, then I stand corrected. My source is a LEO, however. (I wish I can get hold of her right now.) I don't know whether to attribute the discrepency to variations at different PD.

As I stated previously, there is a grey area in injury sustained while resisting arrest. I am all for law and order, and I am happy that you are homefree from all the legal BS.

However, I don't understand what you are saying regarding strike to solar plexus. It is not about feeling the pain on the abs from the punch. It is about striking the nerve center that takes your breath away. You can't breath! And that neutralize you. You get kick there, it might rupture your diaphragm. And how many people can realistically tighen their abs to withstand a punch to the solar plexus? Only if you train HARD for it!!

 

[DWright]

Kennethku,

I doubt that it is a difference in PDs, as much as in circumstances.
As with any street fight there are not any pre set moves. My personal experiences "allowed" me to use those techniques. Take into account the size of both people involved, and the remote area, and I may have been justified in using more force. (Just speculation on the latter.)

As for a strike to the abs. My experience with this is first hand. I watched a Sgt. from a neighboring dept. try to punch a guy in the solar plexus to get him into the back of a patrol car. The man was handcuffed (behind his back), but was refusing to get into the patrol car. He was standing with his back to the open patrol car door, and had braced himself so he could not be pushed in. This Sgt. punched him several times in the solar plexus. He didn't even flinch. He had been drinking, and smoking crack. Guys like that don't feel the pain, and their brain doesn't react like yours or mine.

Only a law enforcement perspective. Drunks and drug users don't respond the same way. As for your reply about a well placed punch or kick taking your breath away, or causing serious injury, I agree completely.

 

[dearnis.com]

Just a quick second to Dinelle's comments. We can, and do, use the tool appropriate to the situation; grab, lock, punch, kick, spray, etc.
You rarely face a larger, stronger opponent under the influence of alcohol, crack, or PCP on the mat; real world experience with these types can be a real eye-opener.