Is our martial arts infographic correct?

thebrightidea

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Hi,

We are just about done with a big infographic with the belt colors from 12 different martial arts.

But as we haven't trained all 12 martial arts ourselves, we worry that some of the belts/belt colors aren't 100% correct... so please tell me if you spot something that is wrong, etc.

Thanks,
Mads

kampsport-baelter.jpg

12 kampsport og 131 b疆lter - her er b疆ltefarverne for karate, judo, taekwondo og andre kampsport | Find Hold
 

Tony Dismukes

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BJJ is correct.

Judo has some variations depending on organization and country. I believe the progression you show is correct for Europe but not the US.

Jujutsu is too broad a classification to meaningfully list a single belt progression. I'm sure you can find a jujutsu organization that uses the system you describe. Others may use a completely different system. Some of the older systems of jujutsu may not even use a belt ranking system.

Ditto for Kung Fu, except the variety of arts falling under that general term is even broader and most of them don't traditionally use belt/sash ranks.

Even if you limit it to Wing Chun Kung Fu - the art doesn't traditionally use belt/sash ranks. Some teachers may have added a system of rank sashes, but I don't believe the system is consistent from one teacher to the next.
 
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jezr74

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Welcome to the forum. The shotokan I learnt, was only 4 belts as a color range... White, Green, Brown, Black. And I've only ever seen belt ranks in wing chun in the US, as opposed to sash or nothing.

Don't think your going to get 100%
 

Kung Fu Wang

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The Chinese ranking system should be in the reversed order.

Instead of starting from 1st Deng, 2nd Deng, ..., 7th Deng, 8th Deng, it should start from 8th Deng, 7 Deng, ... 2nd Deng, 1st Deng. The 1st Deng should be the best (if you have ever buy Chinese tea).

1st grade - $27.75
2nd grade - $19.50
3rd grade - $9.50
4th grade - $6.00

Loose Pouchong Tea

In the ancient time, the city mayor may be the 7th grade but the province governor should be at least 3rd grade or even 2nd grade. Also the color, only the emperor can use the gold color. Right below him are

- Gold
- Red
- Blue
- ...
- Black

where black is the color used only by the normal people (none government official).

Here is the ranking and color used in the Chinese Shuai Chiao system.

http://osukungfu.com/belts.html
 
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Dirty Dog

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TKD traditionally has 9 Dan ranks, with 10th being an honorary rank almost always awarded posthumously (with a few notable living exceptions).

And of course, there is no such thing as WTF Taekwondo. The WTF is a sports regulatory agency, and does not set standards nor award rank. The WTF does have close ties to Kukkiwon TKD, but they are not synonymous. The KKW does not have any official standard for the color worn by a given geup (not kup) rank, nor do they keep records of anything below 1st Dan/Poom.
 

wingchun100

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I don't know most of these arts' rankings. I know that in the judo school I went to, purple came between blue and brown.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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TCMA = Traditional Chinese Martial Arts.

The Shuai Chiao originally only had 3 ranks, the

- 1st rank "扑虎 (Pu Hu) - attacking tiger",
- 2nd rank "扑虎 (Pu Hu) - attacking tiger",
- 3rd rank "扑虎 (Pu Hu) - attacking tiger",

back in the San Pu Yin time. There would draw different salary from the government.

San_Pu_Yin.jpg


ancient_SC_event.jpg


It has evolved into 10 ranks to match the Judo rank in Taiwan in the past 70 years.
 
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thebrightidea

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Thanks.

So it would make sense to replace the Lao Gar Kung Fu sashes with Shuai Chiao Kung Fu belts since Shuai Chiao is more common than Lao Gar. Right?
 

Kung Fu Wang

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Thanks.

So it would make sense to replace the Lao Gar Kung Fu sashes with Shuai Chiao Kung Fu belts since Shuai Chiao is more common than Lao Gar. Right?
I don't think it's a good idea to generalize TCMA that way. As far as I know, there is no standard for TCMA ranking system.

Chinese race is different from the Japanese race. All Japanese may agree on one thing. There is no way that all Chinese will agree on one thing. It had not happened in the past. I don't expect it will happen in the future. In the Chinese culture, "one prefers to be a chicken head than to be a a cow's butt". :)

So for TCMA ranking system, you can define it any way that you like. People will only offer their opinions. Nobody will say whether you are right or wrong.
 
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thebrightidea

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Guess we will need to do some hard thinking then. Thanks a lot for your input (and your Chinese saying :)
 

Flying Crane

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There are at least several vastly different belt systems in capoeira. I've never seen the one that you have listed. The order and sequence of the colors differ, as well as the titles attached.

Many schools of kung fu do not use belts at all. Those that do, also have a lot of variety that does not match what you've listed here. And many of those that do use a belt system, often put little or practically zero emphasis on it. I've been training with my sifu for five years, and prior to that I trained with one of his students for about 11 years. Technically we do have a belt system, but I've never been ranked, altho my sifu has said that it's OK if I do some teaching. I know that my sihing have been ranked but that was quite some time in the past. I don't think it's really come up for real discussion in years.

So trying to nail down ranking systems in a general sense like this just doesn't work well. Even different schools from the same system will use different ranking sequences. Even schools that splinter off of a larger school or organization will change their belt sequence, just to help establish their independence.

what is it you are trying to accomplish, by making this chart?
 

Kung Fu Wang

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Guess we will need to do some hard thinking then. Thanks a lot for your input (and your Chinese saying :)
One good example is the highest ranking color in the Chinese wrestling which is blue, white, and red. That is the color for the National Chinese government. If a Chinese who came from the communist China, he would definitely dis-agree with this color as the highest rank.

[video=dailymotion;x14mtr]http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x14mtr_chang-tung-sheng_sport[/video]

Chinese_flag.jpg


blue_white_red_belt.jpg
 
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jks9199

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The problem you're facing is that you're trying to reduce a hugely complicated and variable subject to a simple chart. It's "correct" as far as it goes for your source material -- but many other styles are different. The Bujinkan only has 3 belt colors (white, green, black), despite 9 kyu (color belt) and 10(15) dan grades. In the American Bando Association, there are generally only 4 belt colors (white, green, brown, black) -- but some schools have added others for youth or other reasons. There are many different patterns in different styles, and even within single styles. I suggest a caveat that you're providing examples -- but that there are variants, even within the sources, and that you make it clear that each chart represents a particular school or association's practice.
 

Brian R. VanCise

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Plus even within some organizations ranking you might find a slight variation. I know several Bujinkan schools that also use a brown belt after green. Pretty hard to have an accurate chart across the board.

Also now within BJJ there is a youth ranking system with different belts.
 

Chris Parker

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Hi,

We are just about done with a big infographic with the belt colors from 12 different martial arts.

But as we haven't trained all 12 martial arts ourselves, we worry that some of the belts/belt colors aren't 100% correct... so please tell me if you spot something that is wrong, etc.

Thanks,
Mads

kampsport-baelter.jpg

12 kampsport og 131 b疆lter - her er b疆ltefarverne for karate, judo, taekwondo og andre kampsport | Find Hold

Is this correct? No. In most cases, it's incorrect, in the rest, it's only of incredibly limited application with respect to some schools of some of the systems you've identified. Others have pointed out the issues with the Chinese systems, but I might point out that Aikido isn't limited to 6 dan ranks (in most cases, 9th is commonly a "top-out" rank, with 10th being posthumously awarded in cases)… when Ueshiba moved from the Menkyo ranking to Dan ranking, he awarded his senior students 8th Dan. Which brings us to the next issue… when you start to include traditional systems (most particularly Japanese ones, which can include Jujutsu… which can render the idea of your Jujutsu ranking in the list as false as the Chinese ones), there's no "belt" ranking or anything similar… they use a licensing (Menkyo) system, which applies completely different criteria to it's awarding. In short, Menkyo licensing shows the level to which you have been indoctrinated into the system, whereas Dan ranking was instituted by Kano Jigoro as a method of showing the relative skill levels of the students. A Shodan (first Dan) and a Sandan (3rd Dan) might know exactly the same techniques, kata, throws etc etc, but they are shown as "better" in terms of their skill with them. In the Menkyo system, someone holding a Chuden Menkyo (mid-level transmission licence) and someone with an Okuden Menkyo (inner-level transmission licence) don't know the same material… the Okuden holder has learnt more of the system, more advanced techniques and lessons, perhaps particular weapon use, and so on. Despite the attempts by some to equate them, there is no real connection between the two ranking systems at all.

Which brings us to the other important thing to realise here… no two ranking systems are equivalent to each other, even if they use similar, or even seemingly identical ranking processes and so forth. A Shodan (or whatever, really) is only the same as a Shodan in that same system and school. Nothing else.

what is it you are trying to accomplish, by making this chart?

This is the real question, and one that I'd ask as well.
 

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