Is Kenpo a viable fighting and self defense art

[Hudson69]

It's decent but a lot depends on the instructor and what you want to get out of it.

 

[Buka]

Useless no power

Can't really be sure of that without feeling the strikes.

 

[AIKIKENJITSU]

What’s your opinion on Kenpo karate

I have been teaching it since 1976 and I have used it maybe six times to defend myself. Each circumstance was different. I am 5'2" and small boned. I have had to use it about six times in my life to defend myself. I found it very effective and it quickly puts a end to any attack I've had.
The main essence of American Kenpo is speed. But I'm sure that's true of many martial arts.
Now I don't believe in the forms and I've never practice them except to pass my test for rank.
American Kenpo in my view is very effective. Is it perfect? No, but it is reliable.
Sifu

 

[AIKIKENJITSU]

I think one of the other "disconnects" is that MANY of the ideas/concepts behind the rapid fire techniques were designed so that they were supposed to be just arm movement and not meant to be a more committed full body strike. I don't need a cannon to kill a fly. On the other hand, I can't shoot a cannon from a canoe. Meaning, if I am trying to kill a fly I don't need lots of power. If I do have to use a lot of power, than I need a platform to support it.

For example, eye pokes/slices, throat strikes etc. don't need a lot of power, just speed to set up a power shot. Many of those targets aren't used because they aren't legal to be used in most self-defense situations. In Kajukenbo (both trace a large part of their lineage to Prof. Chow) they have a saying. "Lead with Speed, Devour with Power".

 

[drop bear]

You can be effective with fast striking rather than heavy.

There is a whole bunch of meta. With that discussion.

 

[Stuarto]

I have only been doing Kenpo for a few months but have been having a great time learning. The defensive techniques (at least the ones I have learned) are not too difficult to learn. Repetition is the key. The most challenging part for me is the forms and footwork. I'm sure over time it will come with muscle memory.

 

[Buka]

I’ve been to a lot of Kempo schools, none of them trained, taught or fought the same way.

The same goes for Tae-Kwon-Do schools, Tang-Soo-Do, Ueichi-Ryu, American Karate and Boxing gyms. I can’t actually remember any two dojos of any kind that did things the same way.

 

[Stuarto]

I’ve been to a lot of Kempo schools, none of them trained, taught or fought the same way.

The same goes for Tae-Kwon-Do schools, Tang-Soo-Do, Ueichi-Ryu, American Karate and Boxing gyms. I can’t actually remember any two dojos of any kind that did things the same way.

Seems to be many Kenpo variations. One of my friends takes Kenpo at another school in Mass. It's very different from the Cerio one I got to.

 

[TransformationWell]

So,

I'm not completely foreign to the art. I did approximately a year of it from 18-19 years old. But after having studied other arts, there are just some things that I: a.) don't understand the logic behind--and--b.) would not ever do in an actual fight as I don't think these tactics are good strategies. To elaborate:

A.) 1.)Many kempo masters(Tatum. Larry Kongaika, others) strike themselves alternating with countering..sort of a back and forth. There's no explanation why. Is it to seem more flashy? Some martial art styles will strike themsevles just before the initial counter(ie: an arm drag) to serve as a distraction before the set up, but that's not what seems to be happening here. This seems very unnecessary and it prolongs the counter attack by a very long time.(which leads to inefficiency).
2.) There's too many strikes as a counter. I once counted 11 strikes to an opponent against one punch(!!).
3.) There's too many strikes to the same area of the body. I watched a video once where the black belt struck to the face, then circled under the opponents arm, then a hit to the back of the neck, then the face again, then the back of the neck again, then a stomp kick behind the knee.

B.) 1.) Little to no(from watching multiple videos) use of footwork to close the gap. In many cases, I see the person being attacked, step away completely(ie: Larry Tatum), this gives the opponent an opportunity to attack again
2.) No exploitation of stealing or tipping the opponents balance--no use of leverage to distort the opponents structure/balance.

I bear no ill will. I would rather learn Kempo than learn NO martial art, but it would not be my first choice(or even high on my list).

 

[punisher73]

So,

I'm not completely foreign to the art. I did approximately a year of it from 18-19 years old. But after having studied other arts, there are just some things that I: a.) don't understand the logic behind--and--b.) would not ever do in an actual fight as I don't think these tactics are good strategies. To elaborate:

A.) 1.)Many kempo masters(Tatum. Larry Kongaika, others) strike themselves alternating with countering..sort of a back and forth. There's no explanation why. Is it to seem more flashy? Some martial art styles will strike themsevles just before the initial counter(ie: an arm drag) to serve as a distraction before the set up, but that's not what seems to be happening here. This seems very unnecessary and it prolongs the counter attack by a very long time.(which leads to inefficiency).
2.) There's too many strikes as a counter. I once counted 11 strikes to an opponent against one punch(!!).
3.) There's too many strikes to the same area of the body. I watched a video once where the black belt struck to the face, then circled under the opponents arm, then a hit to the back of the neck, then the face again, then the back of the neck again, then a stomp kick behind the knee.

B.) 1.) Little to no(from watching multiple videos) use of footwork to close the gap. In many cases, I see the person being attacked, step away completely(ie: Larry Tatum), this gives the opponent an opportunity to attack again
2.) No exploitation of stealing or tipping the opponents balance--no use of leverage to distort the opponents structure/balance.

I bear no ill will. I would rather learn Kempo than learn NO martial art, but it would not be my first choice(or even high on my list).

I am not a formal student of Kenpo, but have studied it informally. Reading through your list, you didn't spend enough time in the system to understand the "why's". You many still disagree with them, but there are reasons and things you mentioned that are a basic part of kenpo.

1). "Slapping yourself" is a common complaint. It serves a couple different purposes. The main two are that it is a rebounding strike off of your body to accelerate it with less energy. Think of it like bouncing a basketball. The second reason is that you are slapping away a limb/incoming strike in a parrying type motion.

2). The S-D techniques are drills to instill targets and flow. I have watched many pro boxers practicing 20+ move combos as well. It is a training method to instill certain attributes. You really aren't meant to "do" the whole technique, but be able to be spontaneous enough to pull the piece needed at that particular time.

3). Without knowing the specific technique you are talking about I don't know if this was an actual technique or something the instructor was playing around with. But, in general, something like that would be teaching you "what if's" about if you find yourself in a certain place in relation to your attacker what options can you use to circle behind or circle to the front.

4). There are many closing gaps. Those are taught in the "freestyle" portion of the curriculum. In a S-D situation the assumption is that you are actually being attacked and therefore you don't need to close the gap. "Closing the gap" is a part of consensual combat where both parties are agreeing to be fighting with each other. Stepping back is taught to beginners as part of their "flinch response" to move away from danger. As a person gets more advanced you learn to move into the attacker on angles and to take their space.

5) There are LOTS of tripping/sweeping/taking the opponent's balance. Leg checks are a big part of the techniques. Each move is meant to disrupt the attacker's height/width and depth zones, which is the basic foundation to take their structure and balance.

 

[TransformationWell]

I am not a formal student of Kenpo, but have studied it informally. Reading through your list, you didn't spend enough time in the system to understand the "why's". You many still disagree with them, but there are reasons and things you mentioned that are a basic part of kenpo.

1). "Slapping yourself" is a common complaint. It serves a couple different purposes. The main two are that it is a rebounding strike off of your body to accelerate it with less energy. Think of it like bouncing a basketball. The second reason is that you are slapping away a limb/incoming strike in a parrying type motion.

2). The S-D techniques are drills to instill targets and flow. I have watched many pro boxers practicing 20+ move combos as well. It is a training method to instill certain attributes. You really aren't meant to "do" the whole technique, but be able to be spontaneous enough to pull the piece needed at that particular time.

3). Without knowing the specific technique you are talking about I don't know if this was an actual technique or something the instructor was playing around with. But, in general, something like that would be teaching you "what if's" about if you find yourself in a certain place in relation to your attacker what options can you use to circle behind or circle to the front.

4). There are many closing gaps. Those are taught in the "freestyle" portion of the curriculum. In a S-D situation the assumption is that you are actually being attacked and therefore you don't need to close the gap. "Closing the gap" is a part of consensual combat where both parties are agreeing to be fighting with each other. Stepping back is taught to beginners as part of their "flinch response" to move away from danger. As a person gets more advanced you learn to move into the attacker on angles and to take their space.

5) There are LOTS of tripping/sweeping/taking the opponent's balance. Leg checks are a big part of the techniques. Each move is meant to disrupt the attacker's height/width and depth zones, which is the basic foundation to take their structure and balance.

Hello Sir/Maam,

First, thank you for the mature manner and lack of defensiveness in your replies. It's greatly appreciated. Re: #s 4 and 5, please observe the following comparison clips I will post. The first 2 are Kenpo, 3, 4 and 5 are kung fu:
1.

(this is what I mean..there's no *connection* between opponents. 20 seconds of slapping the opponents GI. If there is utility behind this, I'm trying to relate it to your initial reply. There doesn't seem to be anything past this, though.
2.

(balance stealing? Sweeps? Modifying/breaking the structure? where?--I guess a hit to the groin would, but other than that..I don't see it)
3.

(applications start at 8 minutes, 18 seconds)
4.

5.