Is it possible... 18-year-old person to have achieved 4th degree black belt?

SapphireStar

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I'm seriously doubting this, but don't want to flat out call anyone a liar. This person is only 18, and good grief, my own teacher is a 4th degree and he's been in it for 20 years.

I found it quite amusing that during all the horseplay at work, this person said to someone "I'm a 4th degree black belt and I'll *f* your *sh* up. Along with, of course, the standard action movie moves of a raised foot and hands in mock fighting stance. :BSmeter:

Could be a black, but 4th degree - already???

Aside from that, as far as I've been taught, we don't go around saying things like that to people in general public, let alone at work. Martial arts, no matter what field, is supposed to be for self-defense or combat.
 

MJS

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I'm seriously doubting this, but don't want to flat out call anyone a liar. This person is only 18, and good grief, my own teacher is a 4th degree and he's been in it for 20 years.

I found it quite amusing that during all the horseplay at work, this person said to someone "I'm a 4th degree black belt and I'll *f* your *sh* up. Along with, of course, the standard action movie moves of a raised foot and hands in mock fighting stance. :BSmeter:

Could be a black, but 4th degree - already???

Aside from that, as far as I've been taught, we don't go around saying things like that to people in general public, let alone at work. Martial arts, no matter what field, is supposed to be for self-defense or combat.

Sadly today, anythings possible, but IMO, I find that anyone that young who has that rank, is laughable at best. I also find it laughable that this person kid thinks he's indestructable. Sorry, I dont care what rank you hold, it doesnt mean ya got an "S" on your chest.

Now, I'm sure some will say, "Well, if this kid started at 4....." Again, I still call BS on that. Why? Well, we have proof in the pudding right here, given this kids atttiude and the way he acts. No understanding of the BB, what it means, etc.
 

dowan50

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Sad to say if your talking about TKD its all about Time in Rank not training. Going backwards Time in rank at 3rd Dan is 3 years time in rank at 2nd Dan is two years and time in rank at 1st Dan can be as little as 12 months so that is only 6 years that puts them back at 12 years old starting and many start much earlier maybe 6-8 years old.

So Poom belts are awarded along the way and then magically at age 15 the poom belts magically convert to full Dan rank. This is all money period.

Nothing takes the place of aging, experience and maturing but this has been going on for decades now and will not stop the only thing to counter this in time will be increasing the number of Dan ranks which are labels are already being used such as Senior Grand Master and Supreme Grand Master? Black belt means next to nothing anymore compared to the 60's 70's but all this matters nothing its about personal health and ability and there is so much to learn concentrate on that instead of the black belt next to you may some day be wearing pampers?


I loved your BS meter How can I do that??
 

LuckyKBoxer

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yes an 18 year old can be a 4th degree.
an 18 year old can be a 10th degree.

There is nothing to say an 18 year old can not make up their own system and claim themselves as grandmaster. In times long since past, other Martial Artists would expose the fraud by handling the business physically. In a day where Legal Fu is more scary then Kung Fu we do not see this happening very much.

I have seen young martial artists with much more skill and knowledge then some old martial artists, so my suggestion would be to not be so worried about rank and age, the two are not always hand in hand. Look more towards the knowledge and skill level then anything.

In most arts the curriculum or knowledge only extends to 3rd-5th degree anyways with the rest of the ranks being honorary and generally reserved to show time in the art, special contributions, etc.

Also different arts have different requirements for rank, some are very limited in any actual knowledge and heavy on physical ability, some are the opposite, and some require little physical ability or knowledge... if the check cashes its good....

If you are really concerned about it then ask the guy, what art he studies, where he studies, and who his instructor is.
 

Bill Mattocks

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Why would anyone care what a person calls themselves? Worry about yourself.
 

LuckyKBoxer

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Why would anyone care what a person calls themselves? Worry about yourself.

People care because they are passionate about their martial art, they hate seeing frauds, phonies, and charlatans. They take it personal. there can be lots of other reasons, but people would not care if they were not passionate about the arts... that is one of the few glimmers of hope I see in all the rank nonsense going on.

maybe you should step off your high horse and stop chastizing people for not being like you. You may not care, but others do, its their right.
 

oaktree

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I'm seriously doubting this, but don't want to flat out call anyone a liar. This person is only 18, and good grief, my own teacher is a 4th degree and he's been in it for 20 years.

Alot of factors can be at play for someone to be awarded a high level belt at an early age.

It could be possible that he trained alot and his teacher felt he met the requirements of obtaining that belt level.

He could just be gifted.

The art he trains in is a belt factory meaning as long as you pay you get a rank every 3-6 months.

He could be just B.S.

He could have started very young or even skipped levels.

I found it quite amusing that during all the horseplay at work, this person said to someone "I'm a 4th degree black belt and I'll *f* your *sh* up. Along with, of course, the standard action movie moves of a raised foot and hands in mock fighting stance

Well if he said that to me he would be a 4th degree without a job I do not take threats at work lightly. Maybe he is full of it.

Could be a black, but 4th degree - already???

There are kids walking around with 1-2nd degree so of course an 18 year old can be 4th just how much pull that 4th degree has is the question.

Aside from that, as far as I've been taught, we don't go around saying things like that to people in general public, let alone at work. Martial arts, no matter what field, is supposed to be for self-defense or combat.

I don't talk about my martial arts at work I think everyone at work thinks I am mild mannered like Clark Kent.
 

Touch Of Death

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People care because they are passionate about their martial art, they hate seeing frauds, phonies, and charlatans. They take it personal. there can be lots of other reasons, but people would not care if they were not passionate about the arts... that is one of the few glimmers of hope I see in all the rank nonsense going on.

maybe you should step off your high horse and stop chastizing people for not being like you. You may not care, but others do, its their right.
Suggesting to people not to get worked up over things they can't do anything about can be done from a small pony.:) It is more Zen.
Sean
 

SFC JeffJ

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Sad to say if your talking about TKD its all about Time in Rank not training. Going backwards Time in rank at 3rd Dan is 3 years time in rank at 2nd Dan is two years and time in rank at 1st Dan can be as little as 12 months so that is only 6 years that puts them back at 12 years old starting and many start much earlier maybe 6-8 years old.

So Poom belts are awarded along the way and then magically at age 15 the poom belts magically convert to full Dan rank. This is all money period.

Nothing takes the place of aging, experience and maturing but this has been going on for decades now and will not stop the only thing to counter this in time will be increasing the number of Dan ranks which are labels are already being used such as Senior Grand Master and Supreme Grand Master? Black belt means next to nothing anymore compared to the 60's 70's but all this matters nothing its about personal health and ability and there is so much to learn concentrate on that instead of the black belt next to you may some day be wearing pampers?


I loved your BS meter How can I do that??
Not all TKD is like this thankfully.

Jeff
 

Dirty Dog

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Sad to say if your talking about TKD its all about Time in Rank not training.

This is not true. Yes, there are TKD belt factories just as there are belt factories for EVERY art. But painting the entire world of TKD with this brush is false, ignorant, and downright insulting to those who have earned their rank.
 
OP
S

SapphireStar

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Thanks for everyone's viewpoints. I was simply curious about whether this was possible. I never intended to challenge the person, worry myself about it, or do anything. I just wondered. The more I know of this person, I believe they've raised their own flag just a bit too high LOL

:bs:
 

Mark Jordan

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Just want to add that the black belt is nothing if he conducts himself that way.

As a black belt you become a model for other students - how you persevere in training, how you conduct yourself in and out of the dojo, your attitude, how you handle obstacles...

A real black belt holder doesn't look down on others. But instead is humble, trains hard and his practice should lead to enlightenment into the nature of who he is - his true self.
 

Indie12

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I'm seriously doubting this, but don't want to flat out call anyone a liar. This person is only 18, and good grief, my own teacher is a 4th degree and he's been in it for 20 years.

I found it quite amusing that during all the horseplay at work, this person said to someone "I'm a 4th degree black belt and I'll *f* your *sh* up. Along with, of course, the standard action movie moves of a raised foot and hands in mock fighting stance. :BSmeter:

Could be a black, but 4th degree - already???

Aside from that, as far as I've been taught, we don't go around saying things like that to people in general public, let alone at work. Martial arts, no matter what field, is supposed to be for self-defense or combat.

Sadly, yep this is possible, I knew a 15 yr old 3rd Dan Black Belt, who had only been practicing less then 10 years!!

I also know a 14 yr old 1st dan black with less then 5 years experience...

I myself had to wait until I was 18 (well I was encouraged too) and when that come, I had over 14 years experience, but now I truly believe I was still too young!

I agree with your last statement, although sadly many many people (including and especially- Martial Artists) don't always see it that way! :(
 

Indie12

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Just want to add that the black belt is nothing if he conducts himself that way.

As a black belt you become a model for other students - how you persevere in training, how you conduct yourself in and out of the dojo, your attitude, how you handle obstacles...

A real black belt holder doesn't look down on others. But instead is humble, trains hard and his practice should lead to enlightenment into the nature of who he is - his true self.

Nicely Said!! :asian:
 

sfs982000

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Just want to add that the black belt is nothing if he conducts himself that way.

As a black belt you become a model for other students - how you persevere in training, how you conduct yourself in and out of the dojo, your attitude, how you handle obstacles...

A real black belt holder doesn't look down on others. But instead is humble, trains hard and his practice should lead to enlightenment into the nature of who he is - his true self.

I couldn't have put it any better myself. I've seen similar situations like what the OP is stating and right away the B.S. flag goes up. The honest to goodness black belts that have earned them the hard way respect the rank and position they hold and it shows in the way they carry themselves and interact with folks in their everyday life both in and out of the dojo.
 

Never_A_Reflection

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My Shuri-Ryu sensei started at the age of 3 and earned Sandan (3rd Degree) at 23 or 24, and my Shorin-Ryu sensei started at about the same age and earned Yondan (4th Degree) at about the same age. That's the youngest I can conceivably see someone earning 3rd or 4th degree, but that is within Okinawan arts with legitimate rank requirements. Anything could happen nowadays, but given the way that person acted I have to assume that he didn't earn his rank so much as buy it.
 

yak sao

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This is precisely the kind of crap that almost makes me ashamed to tell people i do MA.
It's also why I teach out of my garage without uniforms and a very limited ranking system.
 

MJS

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People care because they are passionate about their martial art, they hate seeing frauds, phonies, and charlatans. They take it personal. there can be lots of other reasons, but people would not care if they were not passionate about the arts... that is one of the few glimmers of hope I see in all the rank nonsense going on.

maybe you should step off your high horse and stop chastizing people for not being like you. You may not care, but others do, its their right.

QFT!!! In no way, shape or form, am I the Kenpo police, the Arnis police, etc, and as I've said, the frauds, the ********ters, and the like, will be weeded out, questioned, and ultimately, they will have to answer for their actions.

But you're 100% correct. I care because I love the arts and am passionate about them. Its sad that you can have 2 people....1 is a legit teacher, who's busted his *** for years, earning every rank with blood, sweat and tears, and person 2, who ********s everyone, races thru the rank, as fast as they change their shorts, and doesnt care about the quality of the student, but instead the money. Sad how many tend to go to person 2, because they want everything fast. Do they get a coke and fries with the belt too? Probably. LOL
 

MJS

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This is precisely the kind of crap that almost makes me ashamed to tell people i do MA.
It's also why I teach out of my garage without uniforms and a very limited ranking system.

Exactly! I've said it before and I'll say it again....99 times out of 100, the people that teacch and train in a setting like that, are interested in 1 thing and 1 thing only...the training! You come, you bust your ***, you get banged up, you learn. You dont give a **** about the guy who started 3 months after you, and progresses faster, and so on. Its all about the training and the learning.
 

Xue Sheng

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This entire post is rather depressing…that or I’m just too old.
Back in my Jujutsu days you could not even test for a black belt unless you were 18… now they can be a 4th degree :disgust:
 

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