Internal Arts Represented Here

[Cuentada]

Li Ziming Ba Gua (North American Tang Shou Tao)
A little Xing Yi

 

[lhommedieu]

Noticed from your profile that you also teach eskrima. I think that we may have corresponded a while back. Interesting that we're both associated with Li Zi Ming and Saavedra lineages...

Best,

Steve Lamade

 

[Cuentada]

Hi Stephen,

Yes, that was awhile back. Hopefully, we can meet when we go down to see Tom for some Ba Gua and Xing Yi....I'd like to learn more of San Miguel Eskrima too.

Regards,
Paolo

 

[arnisador]

Thread moved.

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-

 

[Ninway J]

Hmm, don't see any Qi Gong...

Iron Shirt Qi Gong here.

 

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by Ninway J
Hmm, don't see any Qi Gong...

Iron Shirt Qi Gong here.

Is Qi Gong the only thing you practice, or do you incorporate it in with another system?

7sm

 

[Matt Bernius]

I've just been starting to explore the internal MA here in Rochester NY:

Hsing I (or Xing Yi or how ever you want to write it) with Su Dong Chen's Essence of Evolution concepts layered over it.

Ba Gua (from Erle Montague's line)

- Matt

 

[Ninway J]

Originally posted by 7starmantis
Is Qi Gong the only thing you practice, or do you incorporate it in with another system?

7sm

Hello 7* :asian:

Thanks for your question. I was taught Iron Shirt by my sensei as part of Saito Ninjitsu training.

 

[Ninway J]

You know, Iron Shirt Qi Gong was the only Qi Gong I had ever been exposed to until this past wednesday. I went to the local YMCA to watch this Qi Gong class. I was amazed to see how many movements there are in that style of Qi Gong. I don't know what style it was, but the instructor also teaches Yang style long form Taiji. Iron Shirt involves holding the same position for a long time, except for one of the stances.

 

[lhommedieu]

Xing Yi Quan as taught by the North American Tang Shou Tao Association has several Qigong forms that are taught at each of the three levels of training. The principle ones are as follows:

Beginner - Fu Hu Gong
Intermediate - White Crane exercises; Five Element Qi Gong; Tien Gan
Advanced - Wang Ji Wu's 13 Exercises

In addition, advanced practitioners are required to learn Chinese medicine to some degree, and there are other Qigong forms that are introduced as well.

Best,

Steve Lamade

 

[paihequan]

Fujian White Crane of Sifu Dong Mu-Yau and Taiji of the World Taiji Boxing Association along with Reiki/Seichim Healing Arts.

 

[Ninway J]

Well, I just experienced my first taiji class last night. It's Yang style long-form.

The instructor said she teaches mostly for the health benefits while touching only a little on the martial applications. However, I could see the martial applications myself in doing the first few postures of the form. I guess, IMHO, you can mostlikely see the martial applications of taiji if you are already experienced in martial arts. Probably not so if you are unexperienced.

I think she's a good instructor as well. It seems she really wants to make sure that you do everything correctly as far as foot-placement, hand-placement, breathing, posture, and focusing your qi. I was corrected many times, as it is something different from the harder martial art I came from. It's pretty cool. A couple things she mentioned is that there are no blocks in taiji, only re-direction, and there are no kicks in taiji, only separation. Is this true only for Yang style, or is it true for other styles as well?

 

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by Ninway J
A couple things she mentioned is that there are no blocks in taiji, only re-direction, and there are no kicks in taiji, only separation. Is this true only for Yang style, or is it true for other styles as well?

I don't know that I would go as far as saying there are no blocks, or kicks in Taiji. I guess in a philisophical way that is true, more on the no blocks than no kicks part though. If it is true however, it is true in all systems of taiji, not just Yang. I study Yang, and bit of Cheng, they are both applicable in the same ways.

7sm

 

[tshadowchaser]

For those that have posted hee, I would like to ask if you do external styles also , and how Why you think the mixtue works for you.
If you do only internal, have you tried external styles and why did you stop.

 

[Ninway J]

Yeah 7*,
my instructor told me to hold out my arm in a parry. To demonstrate she threw a slow punch toward my parry and directed my arm upward with her other hand, as if to re-direct her punch. She said the object is to re-direct, not meet force with force. I guess different from, say, blocks in karate.

Also the posture where you extend your right leg out front while you extend both arms out to your sides. She said it is not a kick. If it's not a kick, the other thing I can think of is it being either a re-direction of a blow from an opponent in front of you, or a way to bring your opponent off-balance somehow. Or is it there just to make the move look good?

tshadowchaser,
I do both internal and external here. To me, the internal affects the external rather more than vice-versa. Without the qi, my movements would feel empty and be empty (as in lacking something, not Tao emptiness).

 

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by Ninway J
Yeah 7*,
my instructor told me to hold out my arm in a parry. To demonstrate she threw a slow punch toward my parry and directed my arm upward with her other hand, as if to re-direct her punch. She said the object is to re-direct, not meet force with force. I guess different from, say, blocks in karate.

Also the posture where you extend your right leg out front while you extend both arms out to your sides. She said it is not a kick. If it's not a kick, the other thing I can think of is it being either a re-direction of a blow from an opponent in front of you, or a way to bring your opponent off-balance somehow. Or is it there just to make the move look good?

I can see what she means about blocks. Meeting force with force such as a karate block. In mantis we have an "absence" of traditional blocking as well, so that is what threw me off.

My Sifu teaches many applications with kicks in taiji, but I can see her point as well. Many times the foot is used to "hook" behind the oponants foot and used for sweep, or just for contact to "feel" what they will do next. I don't see a good application of taiji without kicks, but I am also no master at it either.

Originally posted by tshadowchaser
For those that have posted hee, I would like to ask if you do external styles also , and how Why you think the mixtue works for you.
If you do only internal, have you tried external styles and why did you stop.

I have a hard time with the external vs internal theories. Ithink my kung fu is both. I've never done a "hard" system such as karate, always CMA and kung fu so I can't really say I kave practiced external. However, my kung fu I think touches both. In fact, I have a hard time alot of times with the labels of internal or external. But I won't get on that soapbox just now.

7sm

 

[Ninway J]

7*
Thanks for your input on the kicks and blocks thing. BTW, you said you also study Cheng style taiji. Is that same, or different from/as Chen style?

 

[7starmantis]

Originally posted by Ninway J
7*
Thanks for your input on the kicks and blocks thing. BTW, you said you also study Cheng style taiji. Is that same, or different from/as Chen style?

Yeah that would be the same, dang keyboard!!

7sm

 

[CloudChaser]

i was briefly introduced to hsing-i, pakua, and tai chi and would like to pursue them again some time in the future... the internal arts seem more difficult for me to learn than the external shaolin kung fu style that i am currently studying...

 

[chee]

Well, I just experienced my first taiji class last night. It's Yang style long-form.

The instructor said she teaches mostly for the health benefits while touching only a little on the martial applications. However, I could see the martial applications myself in doing the first few postures of the form. I guess, IMHO, you can mostlikely see the martial applications of taiji if you are already experienced in martial arts. Probably not so if you are unexperienced.

I think she's a good instructor as well. It seems she really wants to make sure that you do everything correctly as far as foot-placement, hand-placement, breathing, posture, and focusing your qi. I was corrected many times, as it is something different from the harder martial art I came from. It's pretty cool. A couple things she mentioned is that there are no blocks in taiji, only re-direction, and there are no kicks in taiji, only separation. Is this true only for Yang style, or is it true for other styles as well?

I do the Yang Long Form and also Chi Gung (Qi Gung) as an internal art. Taiji (Tai Chi) is a martial form. In modern days, there seemed to be a separation of some people only doing it to balance Chi (Qi) - in other words, for strictly health - some doing it with both intent, health with martial application. It was originally developed for both. I believe you should do it for health too but it's also important to know why the moves are there for martial application.

Your instructor is correct in stating that there is no blocking in Taiji only redirect. Yes, redirection is more important and better than (as 7*M) said, meeting force with force. When you redirect, you can cause an opponent to over-extend their energy (as in a punch) then at the moment of their redirected extension, you return that force which they just gave you back towards them. It is the same energy priciple as, like in Aikido. Their energy force plus your own combined make a devastating impact on them. It also takes very little from your own energy, allowing you to conserve for a better fight.

As far as kicks go, she's calling it separate as in opening up the opponent's stance or redirecting a kick. If there are what we call kicks in Taiji then it would be low ones just to use for redirect or small sweep or directed at a knee.

The difference with external and internal arts are vast. The term External when describing CMA is usally used for arts that extend force by one's muscle skeletal body. Internal is used for arts that calls up Chi (Qi) from within and let the Chi flow first then moving your muscle skeletal body at the final moment. It is a concept that is hard to teach and learn. It is said, you must let the Chi lead you. That is why Taiji is slow moving, you must "master" the energy from within (Chi) before all else. It is more than stepping into stance and moving your arms. There are only a small number of recognized Internal CMA (Taiji, Xing Yi Quan, Bagua, Liu He Ba Fa to name a few).

It seemed you have a good instructor based on what you told us.