How do you train?

[Matt Stone]

I was discussing with a friend the other day the various methods of training that appear to be popular in "Internal" arts...

In Yiliquan, though we train in the methods of Baixingquan, Xingyiquan, Taijiquan and Baguazhang in addition to Yiliquan, all of our training has a very heavy emphasis on contact (if you don't block or get out of the way, you will get hit!), practical application, and reference to our forms (which are used as reference manuals).

I know some Taijiquan people think that fighting training is anathema and the fact that we don't do tons and tons of push hands makes our Taiji somehow less "authentic" or whatever.

I know some Bagua people think that walking the circle is of utmost importance in learning Bagua.

'Fess up, folks! What is your training like?

An example of Yili -

Yesterday I arrived at training and got force fed about 1/4 of our advanced Taiji form, in addition to freshening up what I had learned of the sequence from the start. Worked on that quite intensively for about 30 - 40 minutes (?). When another student arrived (we have a small training group, and yesterday was a very low attendance day), he began working basic techniques (circular knife hand with an advancing step), basic combinations (I didn't see the whole combination, but it appeared to be a circular knife hand with a low block, a horizontal elbow and some other goodies), then went on to work our stance/footwork form (the entire form is nothing but stances and stepping, meant to teach proper positions and distances - you start and end on the exact same spot, so you know if you've gotten everything correct (or not) if you finish where you began) and review of the first few movements of a new form...

I continued working on the advanced Taiji form.

After he finished with all of that, he and I did some partner practice (one step sparring) with him trying to use the knife hand combination from earlier against my attack.

So how do you guys (and gals) train?

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[East Winds]

Yiliquan1,

Interesting and enlightening post! As you are posting under an "Internal Arts" forum, I assume that Yiliquan is considered an internal art? If you do not consider pushing hands as important to Taiji or circle walking as important to bagua, how do you train the internal aspects of your art? For instance would you train Chen style Taiji without ever practising silk reeling?


I do a lot of solo practise as this is the only way you can TRAIN the internal. You then PRACTISE the internal with a partner!

A typical solo practise session for me would be 15-20minutes warm up of stretching and Nei Gung training. 30 - 40 minutes of individual posture practise (ie ensuring I am employing the 10 essences), I MAY then run through the form (113 Traditional Yang Family Taijiquan) concentrating on a particular essence (ie differentiating the substantial from the insubstantial) although this is less important than individual posture training. I then warm down with 15 - 20 minutes of Yi-Chuan Zhan Zhuang training.

Partner practise is a separate process all together, where we practise applications at full speed, push hands to develop and express Jings and develop Chin Na training.

Hope this helps and would be happy to discuss further aspects of Internal training

Best wishes

"When asked about breathing in Tai Chi my Master replied "Yes, keep doing it"

 

[Matt Stone]

East Winds -

I do a lot of solo practise as this is the only way you can TRAIN the internal. You then PRACTISE the internal with a partner!

Perhaps I should have differentiated between solo practice and partner/group practice. I like the way you worded your response...

In Yili, we are "expected" to do 80% of our training on our own. That consists of qigong, working postures, running forms (for multiple effects - speed, endurance, rhythym and timing, distance, to train what I think you are referring to when you talk about subtantial and insubstantial and essences, etc.), etc.

During class time or group training, we work applications as well as individual stuff that needs to be supervised for corrections. The focus, though, is 1st) on briefly reviewing older material for corrections, 2nd) practicing hands on with an uncooperative opponent, and 3rd) learning new material.

We consider Yili to be "internal" because of the amount of qigong and non-physical material that goes into even the simplest techniques, but at the same time we don't really concern ourselves with the separation of "external" and "internal." From a certain perspective, Baixingquan (the original foundation of Yili) is an "external" art. However, it provided the framework on which to hang the theories and postures of the Neijia to create Yili.

You don't find much in the way of limb destruction, or strikes that block in the Neijia (sort of goes against their principles), but we do it in Yili (though it sort of goes against Yili principles as well!). Iron Shirt/Golden Bell Cover stuff tends to be something "external" styles are really hip on doing, but we have a variant of it as well (we call it the "Yili Shield," and it is actually far more "internal" and qigong based than Iron Shirt or Golden Bell).

We are just what we are... Both "internal" and "external," while simultaneously being neither. We just are.

 

[yilisifu]

Insofar as Yili's Bagua training goes, there is a LOT of emphasis on circle walking...but also a great of emphasis on learning principles and being able to apply them.

 

[Matt Stone]

I never said we didn't walk the circle... Just that while other folks do nothing but walk the circle or push hands, we are actually smacking the bejeezus out of each other and putting stuff to work.

I still hurt from yesterday's weekly beating at the hands of Chufeng...

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[yilisifu]

Yep. I think that Bagua people often misunderstand the reason(s) for walking the circle and there's a whole lot more to the art than just that single aspect. Kind of like Taiji and it's push-hands. Very much misunderstood.

 

[East Winds]

Yilisifu and Yiliquan1,

Thanks for your responses. I now have a better understanding of what you guys do. Again, I think we are getting to the same place, only using different street plans to get there! In a combat situation, there is only one solution, and that is to down your opponent. How you do it does not matter! In Taijiquan, we want to work at close quarters, therefore we develop sticking and adhering Jins. This is why we place so much emphasis on push hands! In Bagua, you want to do the same thing but you get there by spiraling and coiling, (going round the block). In Xing Yi you just take the most direct route! But the ultimate aim is the same!

Thanks for your responses

Very best wishes

"When asked about breathing in Tai Chi, my Master replied, "Yes, keep doing it"

 

[Tigertron]

Originally posted by Yiliquan1
.....Iron Shirt/Golden Bell Cover stuff tends to be something "external" styles are really hip on doing, but we have a variant of it as well (we call it the "Yili Shield," and it is actually far more "internal" and qigong based than Iron Shirt or Golden Bell).......

Would you kindly elaborate what Iron Shirt/Golden Bell Cover is, and what 'Yili shield" is?

 

[arnisador]

Thread moved.

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-