About CMA Categories

[Xue Sheng]

I know this has been discussed before on MT (a lot actually) but I have been working on something that is taking MUCH longer than I expected and the more I research it the more it seems to expand, but I wanted to post part of what I have.

As most know there are categories that many CMA styles are put into and generally we go with Southern and Northern or Internal and External but there are a few more that can make it even more confusing. There are also sub-categories that are based on region and family but I am not getting into that much here. Also note that the examples given are only partial lists of the styles in those categories and in some cases some will not agree or like the category

The main categories that are used are;

Northern and Southern which uses the Yangtze River as the line between North and South styles North of the Yangtze are called Northern styles and styles South of the Yangtze are generally referred to as Southern in CMA as well as geographically in China in general.

Northern styles would be Bajiquan, Changquan, Xingyiquan and Taijiquan.
Southern styles are Wing Chun, Hung Ga, Lama Pai and Choy Li Fut

Internal and External; there are multiple reasons things are labeled this way and I do not wish to get into all of those at this time but one of the excepted reasons for this is the focus on internal qi training as opposed to muscular training in the early stages of training. There is a saying that says “internal goes to external and external goes to internal”. This can be understood as internal styles tend to focus on training qi early in training where external styles tend to work on muscular strength first and qi later in training. But there are other origins for this category, (history, religious, arrogance, sloth, etc) but so far it appears regardless of reason this is a fairly recent category by comparisons to Chinese martial arts history as a whole.

External styles would be Shaolin, Hung Ga, Changquan
Internal styles are Taijiquan, Baguazhang and Xingyiquan.

However a note here, to make things just a little more confusing there is a category that is called internal/external and in that you can also find Xingyiquan (which is also labeled internal) and you can also find white crane (which is also labeled external)

Religion; There are also religious categories Buddhist, Taoist and Muslim as well and under this you would also find Wudang and Shaolin

Buddhist styles are Shaolin, Hung Ga and Wing Chun
Taoist styles are Baguazhang, Liu he ba fa, Wudangquan
Muslim styles are Chaquan and Xinyiliuhequan

Note: And of course to add to the confusion some styles such as Tongbeiquan are Muslim while others styles of Tongbeiquan are not.

And then we have the sub-categories that are family or regional such as Hebei Xingyiquan and Shanxi Xingyiquan or Dai style Baguazhang or Gao style Baguazhang or Gao style Xinyiquan. and of course, Chen, Yang, Wu, Wu/Hao, Sun style Taijiquan.

And in some cases categorizing a specific style as internal or external or within a religion based category can cause issues that say it might be best just to stick with North and South and be done with it.

And now to show just how confusing categories can get;

Tongbei which is Northern, and can be Shaolin Tongbeiquan, Pigua Tongbeiquan or Baiyuan Tongbeiquan and Baiyuan Tongbeiquan has two subsets Shi and Qi subsets and if you just take the Qi subset of Baiyuan Tongbeiquan it has various subsets as well "Wu Xing" (5 Elements) Tongbeiquan and 5 Monkey Tongbeiquan and don’t forget Tongbei is also sometimes Muslim….. But there comes a point when you have to say enough already so I will stop here.

 

[Flying Crane]

Ya know, I really am quickly approaching the notion that attempts to classify Chinese arts on any kind of guideline is kind of futile. I think it's good to know where one's style comes from, and what elements have influenced it in its history and such. But to try to pigeonhole any of this into a category just doesn't really work. Too many blendings and too many exceptions to any rule that might be written.

I think it makes sense to understand your own art's history, and if you are interested, understand other arts' histories for the sake of interest, but maybe the categorization ideas ought to just be dropped altogether.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Ya know, I really am quickly approaching the notion that attempts to classify Chinese arts on any kind of guideline is kind of futile.

ahhh but its fun to try

I think it's good to know where one's style comes from, and what elements have influenced it in its history and such. But to try to pigeonhole any of this into a category just doesn't really work. Too many blendings and too many exceptions to any rule that might be written.

I think it makes sense to understand your own art's history, and if you are interested, understand other arts' histories for the sake of interest, but maybe the categorization ideas ought to just be dropped altogether.

Likely true but equally as likely it won't happen. And it some cases Xinyiliuhequan and Bajiquan if you remove the religious classification you are messing with a cultural as well as religious identity, Chinese Muslim and that too can get you into an argument.

This is really a side to what I am working on and it just kind of fell out of the other stuff which is historical in nature and at one point I thought about trying to categorize many of the CMA styles but it got pretty evident early on that trying to go beyond North and South was going to get VERY complicated, subjective and combative when it comes to trying to categorize a style that could be in Northern, Internal, regional, family, religious.

Basically my (incredibly unclear) point is beyond North and South based on origin it gets really difficult and possibly flat wrong. And in the case of Internal External it may or may not be a legitimate "historically acceptable" category

 

[Steel Tiger]

Ya know, I really am quickly approaching the notion that attempts to classify Chinese arts on any kind of guideline is kind of futile. I think it's good to know where one's style comes from, and what elements have influenced it in its history and such. But to try to pigeonhole any of this into a category just doesn't really work. Too many blendings and too many exceptions to any rule that might be written.

I think it makes sense to understand your own art's history, and if you are interested, understand other arts' histories for the sake of interest, but maybe the categorization ideas ought to just be dropped altogether.

I have to agree with you but it does make for a good starting point, and, as Xue said, it can be hours of fun.

In my own investigations into the history of my lineage of bagua (which have not really gone very far, damned Cultural Revolution :cuss I have found that Sichuan might need to be set out as a separate category. But if you follow that line then the north/south distinction becomes meaningless as you would then have to consider each province a separate category.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I have to agree with you but it does make for a good starting point, and, as Xue said, it can be hours of fun.

In my own investigations into the history of my lineage of bagua (which have not really gone very far, damned Cultural Revolution :cuss I have found that Sichuan might need to be set out as a separate category. But if you follow that line then the north/south distinction becomes meaningless as you would then have to consider each province a separate category.

They already do and they are regional sub-categories like, for example, Northern Hebei style Xingyiquan, Fujian White Crane (Southern). There is also a small sub-category of Shandong Province old style Chen. And then you can get REALLY confusing and start tying styles to specific sifus. If you add the province you again end up with North and south since the Chinese are VERY aware of what provinces are North and what are South.

 

[ggg214]

i have poor knowledge about CMA history, even about taiji history.
still thank Xue for your post!

 

[arnisador]

Thanks! I might add ethnicity, which applies to the Muslim styles and also the Hakka styles.