Improving TKD's Image

[Independent_TKD]

I've practice TKD for a long time and, like many of you, have heard quite a lot of bashing. For me most of the criticism revolves around the many poor practices at TKD schools (McDojangs).

As a practicioner of TKD, how would you propose improving the overall image of TKD (NOT organizations like the ITF, WTF, etc) as an effective martial art?

 

[WMKS Shogun]

Hmmmmm...interesting question. Obviously it is not going to happen overnight, and there is no way to win over EVERYONE. I am thinking that we need to stop showcasing 6 year old black belts (for that matter, say something to anyone you know who has a school that HAS a six year old black belt). (We need to) Stop claiming that TKD is several thousand years old. It is about 50, with some skills that may date back thousands of years. Stop trying to tie TKD to Taekyon, Hwarang, etc. It is okay that we can state they have influenced the 'flavor' of TKD, but seriously, drop that line of bull.
If TKD wants to be taken seriously (as a martial art) we need to show its combat effectiveness (and in some schools, learn combat effectiveness). If TKD wants to be taken seriously as a sport, we need some sort of pro-league, because lets face it, TV time once every 4 years at the olympics is pretty pathetic. Heck, poker is not even a sport and it is on multiple times a week!
Just a few thoughts. If I come up with more or a better plan, I will share more, if not, well, there you have it!

 

[bluemtn]

I agree with David- stop showcasing 6yr old black belts, stop pushing out black belts, period (IMHO)- sure, they increase schools popularity for a time, but they really aren't for those that are truly in MA's for more than just the rank. Try showing more of what TKD has to offer in a class, not just sparring competitions- especially as far as the Olympics goes. Stop worrying so much about trying to prove the validity of the art by saying it's been around for 1,000 years. Every art had to have it's start!

 

[Sukerkin]

I'm not a student of the Korean arts but I'm highly pleased to read the two posts above. Well spoken, those people :tup:.

I think if the issues you highlight are addressed, a lot of the 'problems' will go away in time.

 

[Sapper6]

Hmmmmm...interesting question. Obviously it is not going to happen overnight, and there is no way to win over EVERYONE. I am thinking that we need to stop showcasing 6 year old black belts (for that matter, say something to anyone you know who has a school that HAS a six year old black belt). (We need to) Stop claiming that TKD is several thousand years old. It is about 50, with some skills that may date back thousands of years. Stop trying to tie TKD to Taekyon, Hwarang, etc. It is okay that we can state they have influenced the 'flavor' of TKD, but seriously, drop that line of bull.
If TKD wants to be taken seriously (as a martial art) we need to show its combat effectiveness (and in some schools, learn combat effectiveness). If TKD wants to be taken seriously as a sport, we need some sort of pro-league, because lets face it, TV time once every 4 years at the olympics is pretty pathetic. Heck, poker is not even a sport and it is on multiple times a week!
Just a few thoughts. If I come up with more or a better plan, I will share more, if not, well, there you have it!

you have that. it's called the World Combat League and it's totally TKD.

 

[WMKS Shogun]

I have heard of it, but it still has not really picked up from what I have heard.

 

[terryl965]

The one thing I would suggest to everybody that is involved in TKD is and this one would be the hardest thing to do is tell the truth period. If we has practitioners of the Art can put a side our ego's and remember that we all have the same goal in mind and that is to preserve and grow the art we could do both. But ego's will always be our own downfall, everybody as to be a GM and had to be the Champion of the world and have to try there damest to prove others to be a fake and talk every other instructor to crap, it is just pathitic to see and hear. Forum bashing and my Instructor was the champion from time period to time period well here is a news flash they all where and so was alot of us on this talk forum.

In closing I just would like to add this please remember to wipe the snot from your nose before down playing us older people.

 

[tshadowchaser]

I don't know if this has changed much over the years but back when I was in TKD the only "good" schools where TKD or so my instructor told us every night. We where constantly being told how inferior all other systems where and how only those that studied TKD would ever be any good.
Thigs like the above must stop in TKD and all other systems. We all need to acknowledge that there are good and bad points to all arts.
As for the 6 year old black belts, well, yes little Jonnies mother and father may think he is great but they obviusly have no knowledge of what other systems require of Black Belt candidates. I have no problem with young students learning but I certianly can not belive in a 18 year old 5th degree

 

[Kacey]

TKD is the commercialized art of the decade - perhaps of the last 2 or 3 decades. That type of commercialization - the type that is characterized by the McDojo label - is the basis of the poor image that TKD has in many eyes.

In decades past, other arts suffered through this - a movie will come out featuring a particular art, and suddenly, that art will become popular. Schools teaching that art (at least, what they say is that art) will open all over the place - very commercialized, very well advertised - and becoming very rapidly popular. Over time, either the quality of instruction improves, or the best students go elsewhere - taking the reputation of the supposed art with them. People who are serious about learning a martial art choose other arts, and the popularized versions fall by the wayside... leaving those who practice the original art to continue to teach the non-popularized, purer version.

In the past, however, styles/schools were neither so well spread nor so well publicized. TKD can benefit from this widespread publicity only if those who practice the non-publicized version make the differences between the dojang and the McDojo versions known - along with the reasons to avoid the fast track of the McDojo. Promoting the differences on bulletin boards such as this is a start - but it's going to take more. Stopping the promotion of precocious children to inappropriate ranks is certainly part of it - that's as much cultural, in the US at least, as it is anything else; look at all the "youngest person to ___________" who have appeared in the last 15 or 20 years. Publicizing the other side - the problems of extremely young BBs, the reasons to not have children at such ranks - is going to be a hard row to hoe, but it is definitely a place to start.

 

[stoneheart]

Hmm, this probably depends on what your definition of TKD is and I don't really want to delve back into that mess on this thread... So let's be simple. Like some of you, I prefer the 'TKD' taught when the kwan system was alive and well before TKD had become standardized.

Think of what the Moo Duk Kwan, Chung Do Kwan, Chang Moo Kwan, etc. taught their students before they all joined under the tae kwon do umbrella. Did they teach some weapons work? Yes. Did they teach some of what is now called 'hapkido'? Yes. Did they teach body conditioning in order for your feet and hands to be more damaging? Yes.

That's some good stuff right there. Trained hard, it's as effective as any other system out there. And thoughtful martial artists know this.

But the thread is about how to improve TKD's image among the general public and I think that horse has already left the barn. It's sad but true. Short of a time machine, I can only suggest a new name that could be remarketed as the real deal TKD.

Here's a couple of tongue-in-cheek (I can't decide if I'm serious or not) replacement names:

Combat TKD (wow, this one will chap everyone's hide)
Israeli TKD (get a Mossad Grandmaster and you're set)

 

[Independent_TKD]

Short of a time machine, I can only suggest a new name that could be remarketed as the real deal TKD.

I know this was just joking, but I think you really have a point about a new name. I recently posted a related topic on the Self-Defense forum here. Let's say TKDers who practice the type of style you described in your post, what legitimate name changes chould be put out there?

To clearly break away from the low quality, McDojangs, there has to be some way to differentiate styles. I am tired of being lumped in with those places everytime I tell someone I practice TKD.

Is it time for a new name?

 

[tshadowchaser]

Many TKD schools have been looked upon as Black Belt factories and paper mills, in the past. Maybe just changing the requirments for black belt to a higher standerd in many schools would help.

 

[kidswarrior]

The one thing I would suggest to everybody that is involved in TKD is and this one would be the hardest thing to do is tell the truth period. If we has practitioners of the Art can put a side our ego's and remember that we all have the same goal in mind and that is to preserve and grow the art we could do both. But ego's will always be our own downfall

The voice of wisdom, if I've ever had the good fortune to recognize it. :asian:

I just would like to add this please remember to wipe the snot from your nose before down playing us older people.

:lfao: Oh, man, this is worth the price of the Gold Key membership for this whole month!

 

[Tez3]

I'm not sure the general public actually know what TKD is as opposed to karate even judo! Ive been doing karate for years then changed to TSD as well as MMA and I still have people asking me how the Kung Fu is going! another friend insisted on calling it judo for years. If it's not Kung Fu it's obviously kick boxing!
That said, this ignorance can work in your favour if you want to show TKD as you think it should be shown.

 

[Sapper6]

Many TKD schools have been looked upon as Black Belt factories and paper mills, in the past. Maybe just changing the requirments for black belt to a higher standerd in many schools would help.

i agree somewhat. that's just it. you cannot fault TKD for having child black belts. it's the requirements of the certain schools within the system that is at fault, however, that doesn't apply to all TKD schools. i am sure there are some out there that do not fall into that category. they are just fewer in numbers. there is a standard to everything. some are lower than others, especially with the all mighty dollar at stake.

 

[foot2face]

For as long as I can remember practitioners of various MA styles have always spoken negatively about different systems. It's the "my way is the only way, everything else is garbage" syndrome. The only thing I've ever seen end this, was wining a fight. It's a sad commentary but the quickest way to silence all the naysayers and critics is to beat them up. You'll be surprised how quickly someone shuts their yap when you kick it. Now, I'm not advocating mindless brawling, but something needs to happen. People who can fight with TKD have to prove it and gain the respect TKD deserves as an effective SD and fighting system.

 

[Telos]

I think the image largely depends on the students themselves. And their purpose for being there. That alone pretty much dictates teh attitude and word they will bring to the art.

 

[DArnold]

I've practice TKD for a long time and, like many of you, have heard quite a lot of bashing. For me most of the criticism revolves around the many poor practices at TKD schools (McDojangs).

As a practicioner of TKD, how would you propose improving the overall image of TKD (NOT organizations like the ITF, WTF, etc) as an effective martial art?

I don't know.

As to what I do...

To answer the question is to agree to the premis of the question.
I do not agree with the premis therefore no answer.

Quite simple really

 

[Miles]

I've practice TKD for a long time and, like many of you, have heard quite a lot of bashing. For me most of the criticism revolves around the many poor practices at TKD schools (McDojangs).

As a practicioner of TKD, how would you propose improving the overall image of TKD (NOT organizations like the ITF, WTF, etc) as an effective martial art?

As an instructor, I am cognizant that my students are a reflection of myself so I only promote those students who are competent.

I am a reflection of my instructor and my art so I must project a proper image to prospective students as well as other martial artists.

Miles

 

[IcemanSK]

As an instructor, I am cognizant that my students are a reflection of myself so I only promote those students who are competent.

I am a reflection of my instructor and my art so I must project a proper image to prospective students as well as other martial artists.

Miles

I think what Miles says here is key. The best thing we can do (perhaps the only thing we can do) is to promote only competent students.