Improper touching.

[oftheherd1]

It happens before class, and after class. The instructor doesn't see it becuase she doesn't do this when he is there. My complaint isn't during the wrestling drills because obviously yeah, it's wrestling and stuff happens. I am just scared of getting an erection during said wrestling and I am supposed to wear a cup but I haven't yet bought one.

She is attractive and all and it makes it worse when she does stuff like this. I don't want such a relationship with a co instructor, for many reasons. When asking her to stop she makes light of it by saying things like "I just can't help it" or "its so magnetic." It was funny the first few times but I really feel like she missed out on good touch bad touch lessons during adolescence.

Sorry being late to the show with my two cents. I think her responses or ones like those above are classic. They are an attempt to lessen responsibility and legitimize improper behavior. The goal is to provide a defense, and yet leave the door open either to continue the interaction (as the perpetrator desires), or hopefully (again to further the perpetrator's ultimate desire) elicits a favorable response from the victim. But any response is an opening for more attempts unless the response is a firm demand for that kind of action to stop.

You did not do that. I am sure she took that lack of negative response from you as a permission to continue. That isn't meant to put you down or say you asked for it. That would be a classic denial of her responsibility to act properly, and a classic attempt to shift blame. I have always been against that! I simply point it out as a probable reason her improper activity continued.

I have no idea how you were raised, or what experiences you have had with either gender acting improperly towards you or anyone you know. It would appear you were never provided the skills to deal with a situation like this. Frankly, a lot of people haven't. Luckily most of us don't need such skills. Even if we had been told how to act, or seen others handle a situation like this, it doesn't mean we will act like we would hope we would. Reacting to such provocations can be quite embarrassing. We aren't all ready for such things when they actually happen, even if we think we know the right thing to do. Added to that you were a guest of your friend.

Depending on her standing in that dojo, an open confrontation with her might have gone against you. You going to the owner/head teacher still could. If the owner confronts her, she might panic and decide the only way to defend herself is to claim you did things to her first, or only you did anything and she was totally the victim. She might decide to involve the police against you.

I understand the advice given above to go to the owner/teacher and tell him. That would in many ways be proper and noble. It might help protect the dojo from later legal problems. But I would caution you to think through if that satisfaction is worth any possible legal ramifications to you. It might be better to just walk away. It would certainly be prudent to consult with legal council first. I would not again go to that dojo unless you are certain she will not cause any further problems. And I don't know any way you could be certain of that. She is likely a person who likes to be in total control of relations with men.

This may not be accepted by other forum members or those who have comment above already. I admit I don't know everything that went on, only what you have described. But given what you have said, you going back there may put you at risk of further attempts by her to engage you in improper encounters. That is very likely to be to your disadvantage.

Only you can decide what is the right thing to do, and more importantly, if you want to do it. Only you can decide if you are willing to face any consequences of what you decide to do or not do. I wish you luck in making the decision that is best for you. But I again suggest you make sure your decisions don't put you at any risk you don't want.

 

[Ironbear24]

We are friends now. She doesn't do that anymore since I made it obviously clear I don't like it. The only time she touches my *** is when she is kicking it now.

 

[jks9199]

Sorry being late to the show with my two cents. I think her responses or ones like those above are classic. They are an attempt to lessen responsibility and legitimize improper behavior. The goal is to provide a defense, and yet leave the door open either to continue the interaction (as the perpetrator desires), or hopefully (again to further the perpetrator's ultimate desire) elicits a favorable response from the victim. But any response is an opening for more attempts unless the response is a firm demand for that kind of action to stop.

Just a thought -- triggered in part by oftheherd's post, but something that's been running through my mind a bit throughout.

Change the genders. What if the person being touched was a woman, and the toucher a guy? What would be people's response? Would it be to tell the instructor -- or to put a stop to it immediately? Or even to call the cops?

I've seen this happen a lot with sexual assaults and domestic violence; a double standard and excuses made when the perpetrator is a woman.

 

[oftheherd1]

Just a thought -- triggered in part by oftheherd's post, but something that's been running through my mind a bit throughout.

Change the genders. What if the person being touched was a woman, and the toucher a guy? What would be people's response? Would it be to tell the instructor -- or to put a stop to it immediately? Or even to call the cops?

I've seen this happen a lot with sexual assaults and domestic violence; a double standard and excuses made when the perpetrator is a woman.

jks9199, it seems you threw out a hot potato, and nobody wants to play.

If we change the genders, should the response be different? I think each situation and the people involved should determine the response. When I answered, I did so based on how the poster presented the situation. Do you think it was good advice, or bad, or just something that might or might not fit?

I am sure you have more experience than I do. But if there is a double standard, why do you think there is? Whose fault is it (speaking in general)? Do men give women a pass they don't deserve? Or are they too embarrassed to publicly (in their minds) say they were victim to a woman? Whichever, what does that say?

 

[Skullpunch]

Had something similar happen to me with a woman I used to grapple with, although my case wasn't quite so flirtatious. Basically anytime I went for a kimura (or whatever else) from a position where my balls were reachable she would try to wrestle my cup loose and vice grip them in an effort to escape. The first time this happened I accidentally hurt her because I had the kimura locked in from the north south position and when she got hold of my junk I tensed and jerked from the abrupt shock of pain while I had hold of her arm and popped her shoulder (thankfully it didn't get dislocated or break her arm or anything). You'd think that would've taught her not to do that anymore but nope. Next time she tried it I told her to stop in a way that made it perfectly clear that what she was doing wouldn't be tolerated. The third time I told the instructor and he made her leave the class.

I was the only person she was doing this to apparently. I haven't seen her since and I still don't know if she was just being a bitch or if there was some weird fetish thing going on.

 

[GiYu - Todd]

I've never had any attractive women try touching me inappropriately... (sigh).

 

[Balrog]

It happens before class, and after class. The instructor doesn't see it becuase she doesn't do this when he is there. My complaint isn't during the wrestling drills because obviously yeah, it's wrestling and stuff happens. I am just scared of getting an erection during said wrestling and I am supposed to wear a cup but I haven't yet bought one.

She is attractive and all and it makes it worse when she does stuff like this. I don't want such a relationship with a co instructor, for many reasons. When asking her to stop she makes light of it by saying things like "I just can't help it" or "its so magnetic." It was funny the first few times but I really feel like she missed out on good touch bad touch lessons during adolescence.

Try this. If you don't get it resolved by discussing it with the chief instructor, the next time she grabs your butt, do a very fundamental self-defense tactic: knock her hand away with a low block and yell at the top of your lungs, "GET YOUR HANDS OFF MY ***!"

That will pretty much guarantee she won't do it again.

 

[Ironbear24]

I've never had any attractive women try touching me inappropriately... (sigh).

Do some squats, it will happen. That's what I do.

 

[oftheherd1]

Do some squats, it will happen. That's what I do.

So were you really sincere in asking advice on how to stop the improper teaching?

 

[Tez3]

So were you really sincere in asking advice on how to stop the improper teaching?

He was serious when he posted but since then the situation has been resolved to his satisfaction and the inappropriate touching no longer happens.

 

[oftheherd1]

He was serious when he posted but since then the situation has been resolved to his satisfaction and the inappropriate touching no longer happens.

I got that the situation seemed resolved to his satisfaction, but I just thought his remark I quoted, seemed as if he was showing he wanted to be touched, and was showing how to entice being touched. I thought his first posts and the later post inconsistent.

 

[Tez3]

I got that the situation seemed resolved to his satisfaction, but I just thought his remark I quoted, seemed as if he was showing he wanted to be touched, and was showing how to entice being touched. I thought his first posts and the later post inconsistent.

I pointed out early to him that waiting until she'd touched at least ten times before complaining was giving mixed signals, I think the situation confused him to be honest. There was flattery that she was doing it but then it occurred to him that it perhaps wasn't appropriate so he ought to complain, I think the OP still has mixed feelings on it, plus of course he's probably getting comments off male friends about how lucky he was etc. I do wonder too that if he hadn't thought the woman 'attractive' he would have complained quicker!

 

[GiYu - Todd]

I think he was just replying to my comment with advice for my "situation". There seem to be far less groupies seeking to flirt with middle aged guys than I was promised in the brochure.

 

[Flatfish]

Yeah training in MA has gotten me nothing from those of the female persuasion other than weird looks......

 

[Ironbear24]

I pointed out early to him that waiting until she'd touched at least ten times before complaining was giving mixed signals, I think the situation confused him to be honest. There was flattery that she was doing it but then it occurred to him that it perhaps wasn't appropriate so he ought to complain, I think the OP still has mixed feelings on it, plus of course he's probably getting comments off male friends about how lucky he was etc. I do wonder too that if he hadn't thought the woman 'attractive' he would have complained quicker!

I did complain the first times but I think she thought my complaints were playful. When I stated very clearly that I didn't feel it was appropriate given the student and co-instructor relationship she then said she understood and stopped doing it.

The other guys didn't really comment about it much aside from laugh about it when it did occur. As far as how I would react if she were less attractive, I would do the same thing. Say I don't like it.

 

[Tez3]

I did complain the first times but I think she thought my complaints were playful. When I stated very clearly that I didn't feel it was appropriate given the student and co-instructor relationship she then said she understood and stopped doing it.

The other guys didn't really comment about it much aside from laugh about it when it did occur. As far as how I would react if she were less attractive, I would do the same thing. Say I don't like it.

I find a very firm grasp of their throat, while standing on their foot and looking them firmly in the eye while biting their ear at the same time as hissing 'NO' in it works.

Seriously though telling someone it's inappropriate isn't enough, you have to tell them if they touch you again you will arrest them for assault and you will drag their limp body into the police station to charge them......okay that's just me.

 

[Ironbear24]

I find a very firm grasp of their throat, while standing on their foot and looking them firmly in the eye while biting their ear at the same time as hissing 'NO' in it works.

Seriously though telling someone it's inappropriate isn't enough, you have to tell them if they touch you again you will arrest them for assault and you will drag their limp body into the police station to charge them......okay that's just me.

You're scary.

 

[Ironbear24]

GET YOUR HANDS OFF MY ***!"

Best kiai ever.

 

[Tez3]

You're scary.

Not the first time that has been said. I jest not, it actually said that on one of my yearly reports for work.

 

[GiYu - Todd]

I find a very firm grasp of their throat, while standing on their foot and looking them firmly in the eye while biting their ear at the same time as hissing 'NO' in it works.

I was trying to picture this, but couldn't figure how you'd look them in the eye while biting their ear. Maybe some ears badly stretched from wearing huge guages? Or they resemble the guy kept in the basement in "Goonies"?