IKKA Website "My name is Ed Parker-

Hollywood1340

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And I teach Karate"
Just finished checking out the IKKA's New Website and it's very well done. The opening flash is very well done, and site navigation coudn't be better. It's still under construction, but I an see a lot of work has been put into it already. Kudos to the IKKA and their web design team!
 
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brianhunter

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Nice to see it revamped!! Still seems like it should be home to everyone for some reason :(
 

satans.barber

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[ Kudos to the IKKA and their web design team! [/B]

Hmm, it's not /that/ good....

For a start, you shouldn't have to hover over every item in a menu to find what you want; the idea behind a menu is that you can see what you want, and click on it straight away (people might want to look up Fitts' law).

Also, why is the text on pages such as the history page images, and not plain, selectable text? This has the disadvantage of being a complete pain in the **** to edit (for the webmasters, who we're meant to be giving kudos to...!), you can't select and copy (if for example if you wanted to send someone a bit of the text in an e-mail), the images are umpteen times larger than the associate plain text would have been, increasing the page size by a large factor etc. etc..

The menu is written in Javascript and won't work in text browsers, and no text based alternative is offered.

Here's an screengrab of what the site looks like in a text browser:

http://www.satans.barber.btinternet.co.uk/files/ikka_lynx.png

Also, the photos page is well over a megabyte in size, which is ridiculous. There are no thumbnails so that people on 56K connections (remember that cable and broadband uptake has been a lot slower outside the states) can simply choose which larger images to view, rather they will have to wait approximatly 4 minutes for that page to render.

I could go on, but I need to go cook some tea and I don't have time!

To be honest, from someone who knows hat they're doing, the design of that page is actually pretty terrible. Although, to be fair, I have seen worse!

Ian.
 
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Hollywood1340

Hollywood1340

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He did and does. Was from a never aired advertisment for his schools. Thanx to Goldragon7 for that info!
 
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Hollywood1340

Hollywood1340

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I like it :)
(Cocks and eyebrow)
Text browser. Curious. Just switched to Opera myself. Seeing as many people fail to take into account people are using text browsers. Is this (Beat) common, these text browsers? (Thinking)And my guess is the reason for non selectable text and so forth is a "Security" measure to prevent pilfering and pillaging of site contect. Think there would be an easier way to do that.
(Pause) Cooking tea? (Shakes head) What'll they think up next?
(Turns to go) (Turns back around, puzzled expression) And who is the girl in the picture?
 

satans.barber

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Originally posted by Hollywood1340


Text browser. Curious. Just switched to Opera myself. Seeing as many people fail to take into account people are using text browsers. Is this (Beat) common, these text browsers?

Good man, I use Opera solely as my browser. Text browsers are not that common no, but they are still in use more than you might think. Often for conveniences sake, often because people are using a shell on a remote machine.

For example, certain pages at the University can only be viewed from inside the University network, so often I'll open an SSH session in a machine there, and then use a text based browser there so that I can see the pages. If the pages were designed like that IKKA one, that wouldn't be possible. That's not the only reason someone might use a text based browser, but it is a valid one.

Obviously that doesn't apply to the IKKA website since it's world viewable, but, it's still worth designing sites so that they can be navigated in these browsers, otherwise you are exluding a section of the potential audience for your site.

(Thinking)And my guess is the reason for non selectable text and so forth is a "Security" measure to prevent pilfering and pillaging of site contect. Think there would be an easier way to do that.

Rubbish, you could simply drop the image into any OCR app you care to download and have the text output in seconds, if that is written like that for security measures, it really is a piss poor attempt at thwarting plagiarism!

(Pause) Cooking tea? (Shakes head) What'll they think up next?

Sorry, Yorkshire term! 'Tea' here is what you might call dinner, or an evening meal. I don't know what your phrase is!

(Turns to go) (Turns back around, puzzled expression) And who is the girl in the picture?

My terminal has a transparant background, so the wallpaper shows through. You can see a section of some final fantasy 10 wallpaper, which is an image of Tidus, a young man, rather than a 'girl' :)

Ian.
 
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Kirk

Guest
It's written in flash, a very common method of production. The
menus as well are very common, especially when used in flash
presentations. Fitt's law? The disadvantage of Fitt's Law is a
lack of a common opinion in the measures found in
across-study comparisons. I personally felt it navigated well, and
is similar to MANY well designed sites that are pleasing to the
eyes.

If we wrote to the lowest common demoninator all the time, no
one would progress, would they? Check out Gates' law. ;)

By not making it "text browser accessible" they've chosen
their audience. That doesn't make it an unpleasing site. Not
one bit.
 

satans.barber

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Originally posted by Kirk

It's written in flash, a very common method of production.


No, it is not. The introduction is written in Flash (don't even get me started on Flash intros..), the main page it written in HTML and javascript. There's not an iota of Flash on it.

Flash isn't as common as you might think either, people who write decent sites tend to avoid it.

The menus as well are very common, especially when used in flash
presentations.

What? You're making me laugh now! As I've told you, it's not Flash. However common the menus are, that design is still awful! It's a guessing game, hardly a menu at all.

I could mention that it requires a certain amount of mouse dexterity as well that older Web users, or people with arthritis or RSI might not posess. Generally anything where you move the mouse over an object, and then have to move the mouse in a certain way in order to get to where you want to be is a bad idea.

See http://www.stu.uk.com/html/index.htm as an example.

I personally felt it navigated well, and is similar to MANY well designed sites that are pleasing to the eyes.

Functionality and navigability should always come before eye candy.

Simple HCI tests would show how poorly that navigates, however it may /appear/.

By not making it "text browser accessible" they've chosen
their audience. That doesn't make it an unpleasing site. Not
one bit.

Not directly, but if I was personally putting a lot of work into a site as they have done (NB: hours invested isn't always proportional to quality) I'd want as many people as possible to be able to enjoy it, which means, first and foremost, cross browser compatability and usability.

You don't have to *sacrifice* anything to make a good website, you just need to design it well. On a high traffic, prestigious sites such as that one, design should be considered even more carefully.

Ian.
 
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Kirk

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Originally posted by satans.barber

No, it is not. The introduction is written in Flash (don't even get me started on Flash intros..), the main page it written in HTML and javascript. There's not an iota of Flash on it.

My bad, I didn't look close enough.

Originally posted by satans.barber

Flash isn't as common as you might think either, people who write decent sites tend to avoid it.

Then you and I must be going to different sites, often.

Originally posted by satans.barber


What? You're making me laugh now! As I've told you, it's not Flash.

You're making ME laugh now. It's LOADS more pleasing to the
eye than your site dude.

Originally posted by satans.barber

However common the menus are, that design is still awful! It's a guessing game, hardly a menu at all.

I found it easy to navigate, easy to find things, and required no
more dexterity than manipulating windows.
 
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brianhunter

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Originally posted by satans.barber

No, it is not. The introduction is written in Flash (don't even get me started on Flash intros..), the main page it written in HTML and javascript. There's not an iota of Flash on it.

Flash isn't as common as you might think either, people who write decent sites tend to avoid it.



What? You're making me laugh now! As I've told you, it's not Flash. However common the menus are, that design is still awful! It's a guessing game, hardly a menu at all.

I could mention that it requires a certain amount of mouse dexterity as well that older Web users, or people with arthritis or RSI might not posess. Generally anything where you move the mouse over an object, and then have to move the mouse in a certain way in order to get to where you want to be is a bad idea.

See http://www.stu.uk.com/html/index.htm as an example.



Functionality and navigability should always come before eye candy.

Simple HCI tests would show how poorly that navigates, however it may /appear/.



Not directly, but if I was personally putting a lot of work into a site as they have done (NB: hours invested isn't always proportional to quality) I'd want as many people as possible to be able to enjoy it, which means, first and foremost, cross browser compatability and usability.

You don't have to *sacrifice* anything to make a good website, you just need to design it well. On a high traffic, prestigious sites such as that one, design should be considered even more carefully.

Ian.

Mouse dexterity and RSI and arthritis?? Come on now!
This is a web site for kenpoist isnt it?? Guess they should have thought about handicap parking huh?

Sometimes I think you can get so caught up in how something is made, you can forget how cool it is in its basic form.
Its a nice damned site...they are making an effort..and that is good for kenpo and seeing two man set in flash is absolutely cool as hell... screw what a programmer thinks about flash

dont get so caught up in counting grains that you cant even see the bowl of rice in front of you!
 
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jeffkyle

Guest
Flash or no Flash....Arthritis or no Arthritis...
I like the way it looks. Whatever they are doing it is turning out nicely...! I wish I could get someone to do a site like that for me! ;)
 

satans.barber

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Originally posted by Kirk
You're making ME laugh now. It's LOADS more pleasing to the eye than your site dude.

Hehehehe, Kirk, the menu on you website is SQUARE, with alternating green and red shaded cells! So don't lecture me on things that are easy to use and pleasing to the eye!

Ian.

p.s., You have 'computer programmer' listed as your occupation, I'm curious, what do you write for a living and in what languages?
 
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Kirk

Guest
Originally posted by satans.barber

Hehehehe, Kirk, the menu on you website is SQUARE, with alternating green and red shaded cells! So don't lecture me on things that are easy to use and pleasing to the eye!

Hehehehehe, Ian, I never claimed to be an expert, did I? As I
can recall, this is the second site that's looked far better than
yours that you've dogged on. So I WILL lecture you little boy
because you have a terrible ego problem. If you knew anything
about pleasing to the eye, check out the socks on your picture!
Who practices m.a. in their socks anyway?

Not only have you ragged on sites that look better than yours,
you've also chosen to rag on my country, often. The situation is
the same ... 2nd world country ragging on a first world country. I
think there's an element of ego, and/or jealousy involved here.

Your experience is nothing but regurgitation of what some
high school/college professor has told you ... live in the real
world for some time before acting like an expert.

Originally posted by satans.barber

You have 'computer programmer' listed as your occupation, I'm curious, what do you write for a living and in what languages?

This is your doubting the skills, and the statement, so I'll indulge
you. Professionally I program in VB, NATURAL, MVSJCL, CICS,
COBOL, and ASP. In addition, I've been trained in, C, C++, SQL,
ADA, "old school" BASIC, RPG, PL1, HTML, VBS, and JavaScript.
 
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Hollywood1340

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With my geek self *Burns CD and debugs windows*. Sorry, coudn't resist. My this thread is cool! I have no clue what y'all is talking bout, but keep it up! I must agree with the whole Flash intro's thing. It's just flash, as a jump spinning back hook kick is in a form. Yeah, they look cool, but what do they really do? I've seen some really well done intro's, but many aren't worth my time. The site to *me* looks good. Granted, it could be a bit more functional when it it comes to design. For me personly, I like to see "Functional Elegance" in a site design (For a Bazillion points, what vehical is described by it's makers as "Functionaly Elegant" and pride themselves on not putting in one red cent towards beauty) "Less is best". Do I follow that dictum? No. Just look at my very humble, amaturish page that moonlights as my "Official" page.
And yes, Opera rocks!! Go mouse gestures!! Yeeehaa!
 

Bob Hubbard

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Intro - nice, but took way too long, even on my DSL. (which was flying on other sites)

Main page. - Looks pretty. Nice "Mystery Meat" navigation system. Slow. I'm running on an over clocked 1Ghz pc, with 1.5GB ram....draws were noticible when ya moused over the 'mystery' buttons.

Lets move on....
Mr. Parkers Head. 15 second draw time to display larger image in center of page, and draw buttons for options. Final product looks nice, just slow.

Lets click on BIOGRAPHY.

Nicely layed out... Hmm... no place to go unless I remember to hit my browsers -BACK- button as the navigation disapeared. Bad sign.

Lets click on "Mystery Button #2" (The sparing picture?)
Oh. Its "Ed Parkers Kenpo Karate" Lets pick History.
Nice lay out, but again, no navigation system. Lets cheat and view source. Ohh...nasty. It yelled at me, twice! when I right clicked. Ok, no worries. View-Source. Ok, its a very small source file, that loads a bunch of graphics. So, the reason why you cant highlight the text is because its in gif format. Bad sign. Search engines cant index graphics, so they will score very low if at all on them. But they did use a modern tool. It wasn't Frontpage. :)

At this point, I stop as I've got other things to do.

Pluses:
Its updated
It looks clean

Minuses:
Slugish Flash intro.
Slow loading
text is all graphics
Mystery navigation on main page
No navigation on sub pages
Various source code issues

Checking PC:
AMD 1Ghz w/ 1.5 GB Ram, running Windows 2000, IE 6 on a 384KB SDSL line.





:asian:
 
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Elfan

Guest
Hmm well it looks pretty...

If it gets some new pics and videos I'll change my opinion. The design is prety but not very good.

Flash is just ewww. Its okay for movies and games but I can think of one site that used Flash and was "good" and that was profesional web designers test page for something.

EDIT: Okay it also uses that annoying as hell right click protection crap, not cool.
 
K

Kirk

Guest
Originally posted by Kaith Rustaz

Professional Critique:

LOL! Great critique! Honest. Blunt but not insulting. Humorous.
Hint of lemon :mad: ... Must be a New York thing.
 

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