Kenpoguy123
Purple Belt
Yes you can ignore the ground game and yes you can ignore stand up. You can do whatever you want in mma you can't ignore them but mma is mma it's it's own thing not everyone wants to be an mma fighter
If you could start over would you choose to learn first a grappling art or a stand-up art.
- Thread starter Jason Smith
- Start date
MI_martialist
Brown Belt
What does grappling mean?
I would personally take a path similar to what I found by accident: start with strikes (Shotokan Karate), then work on grappling and groundwork (Kotokan Judo), then study something that has both (Nihon Goshin Aikido), and mix in some good seminars and cross-training to explore and go beyond the primary art.
That's what I ended up doing, and I've liked the result. I've met others who walked entirely different paths, and found similarly pleasing (and effective) results.
MI_martialist
Brown Belt
OK, grappling is sustained contact, and in this definition's case, sustained contact for positional advantage if you will. I disagree that grappling generally does not include weapons. One can maintain sustained contact for positional advantage with a weapon.
So, why is it most people responding are relating grappling to ground fighting or wrestling while ignoring all other types of grappling?
I believe the original post is concerned with the basic training of an individual, which, in fighting as most of us here know it, is either striking or grappling. You would have to ask Jason (the OP) but I believe he's asking "considering what we know now" which way would we start.
I think part of it also stems from an age old question in the fight game, "Who would win, a boxer or a wrestler?"
You are allowed to agree or disagree, but grappling doesn't generally include weapons. By all means, feel free to start a thread on it, though. Might be fun.
I think part of it also stems from an age old question in the fight game, "Who would win, a boxer or a wrestler?"
You are allowed to agree or disagree, but grappling doesn't generally include weapons. By all means, feel free to start a thread on it, though. Might be fun.
A lot of armored sword fighting in HEMA involves grappling
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
This is basically the quote for the sort of business.
"When two valiant men of skill at single rapier do fight, one or both of them most commonly standing upon their strength or skill in wrestling, will presently seek to run into the close…But happening both of one mind, they rather do bring themselves together. That being done, no skill with rapiers avail, they presently grapple fast their hilts, their wrists, arms, bodies or necks, as in …wrestling, or striving together, they may best find for their advantages. Whereby it most commonly false out, that he that is the best wrestler, or strongest man (if neither of them can wrestle) overcomes, wrestling by strength, or fine skill in wrestling, the rapier from his adversary, or casting him from him, wither to the ground, or to such distance, that he may by reason thereof, use the edge or point of his rapier, to strike or thrust him, leaving him dead or alive at his mercy."
Your opponent has to pass your
- weapon fighting range before he can enter your kicking range.
- kicking range before he can enter your punching range.
- punching range before he can enter your clinching range.
- clinching range before he can take you down and get to the ground game range.
So the proper training order should be:
weapon fighting skill -> kicking skill -> punching skill -> throwing skill -> ground skill
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
crazydiamond
Purple Belt
If I could start my life over again - I would have done some wrestling in middle and high school, and later switched to add striking as an adult I started martial arts very late in life, and although I like the small amount of grappling I do, and actually would like to do more - going to the ground is harder on an old guy.
Agree! IMO, the throwing art experience can be very valuable to the striking art. A wrestler may spend 6 months just to develop a "single leg". To apply that in the striking art development, a striker should also spend 6 months to develop his "hook punch". Also the wrestler's "partner drills developing" and "mat testing" can be a good reference for the striking art developing.
True. But when you read/hear the word grappling here on MT do you immediately think, or picture, weapons? Is the word usually used that way?
I have done a few different striking arts growing up. I didn't really do anything in high school and what I would change is that I would want to do wrestling then. I grapple with guys with wrestling backgrounds and, even a decade letter, their sense of take downs, pressure, and movement are usually pretty darn good. I have a guy at my school who used to wrestle but also just seems to be a natural at grappling and as a one stripe white belt (although I think he's due for his second) gives us blue belts quite a bit of trouble.
Juany118
Senior Master
First I agree with Crane. When looking for that art however I would also keep in mind why you want to learn an art. Example for me an art with me taking. People down for ground fighting would be a bad fit. When I need to fight there are usually other people around more than willing to help their buddy and being on the ground is dangerous in that circumstance. As such I study "stand up" arts that include striking along with Chin-na that teach how to survive and recover from being taken down.
When you study specialist grappling systems you not only learn to take people down, you spend half the time learning NOT to be taken down against the guys who are the best at it.
Juany118
Senior Master
I understand that but I am brainwashed by over 25 years in Uniform... "train like you fight". Due to my gear and circumstances going to the ground is bad. So I studied Aikido for a bit, now I study Wing Chun and Inosanto Kali (same teacher), because those arts, in a holistic fashion, are more in the "train as you will fight" mold.
As I said though it's all about personal choices. I know more than a couple other cops who have trained in BJJ, it served them well. My brain is just wired as I note above. Not an indictment of any method, just saying you need to pick what "fits" you, mind and body, don't force it because of theories told to you. I tried Judo and Jujutsu before Aikido just felt right. I tried Ryushinkan, then Krav Maga until my current WC and Kali just felt right. /Shrug
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