I think this here is way better than wing chun

[Ironbear24]

I have never ever heard that suggestion before. If such a thing even exists, I suspect it is much more modern in academia than Motose's era.

It does not exist. The comment was sarcasm. How can you really point to someone being a fraud if our subject matter lacks such credentials? Especially back in the 30's and 40's.

 

[Flying Crane]

It's in his book infinite insights volume 1

Name the page and I'll check it. I believe that is not true. He was William Chow's student.

 

[Flying Crane]

It does not exist. The comment was sarcasm. How can you really point to someone being a fraud if our subject matter lacks such credentials? Especially back in the 30's and 40's.

The thing is, I've heard other people make a "Ph.D." claim, so I missed the sarcasm.

 

[Ironbear24]

Name the page and I'll check it. I believe that is not true. He was William Chow's student.

I recall him being chows student as well, but chow was trained by mitose.

 

[Flying Crane]

I recall him being chows student as well, but chow was trained by mitose.

I am certain he was chows student.

However, it would be possible that he also trained with Mitose, but I am quite certain he went out of his way to distance himself from Mitose and deny such a relationship.

Mitose and Chow had a relationship that would have been teacher-student in some fashion, but just exactly the nature and depth of that relationship is also debated.

 

[Ironbear24]

I am certain he was chows student.

However, it would be possible that he also trained with Mitose, but I am quite certain he went out of his way to distance himself from Mitose and deny such a relationship.

Mitose and Chow had a relationship that would have been teacher-student in some fashion, but just exactly the nature and depth of that relationship is also debated.

The only real way know would be ask relatives of his.

 

[Flying Crane]

The only real way know would be ask relatives of his.

Of Mitose? I wouldn't know who they are.

Personally, I don't care about it, I no longer train Kenpo of any flavor.

 

[Ironbear24]

Of Mitose? I wouldn't know who they are.

Personally, I don't care about it, I no longer train Kenpo of any flavor.

I meant Ed Parker's relatives but if you don't care then that would be pointless too.

 

[Kickboxer101]

I don't know if there is any truth to this or not. However, I believe such attempts would be impossible to enforce, with the possible exception of the use of the name "Ed Parker" in the official name of someone's school. However, people could always make a statement about having been his student, or somewhere in the downstream of lineage traced back to him.

If the family was really trying to do this, which I rather doubt, it is a big waste of time.

Here we are read through the lines of this Ed Parker Sr. Kenpo Karate | LICENSING

 

[Flying Crane]

Well, there have been a lot of soscussions about these issues both here and on kenpotalk, Ron Chapel posts over there and was apparently very close with Mr. Parker up until his death, and was with him from the early 1960s. Everyone from those early days has their take on what happened, so I view with that in mind, but I think Ron is a straight shooter. I don't know that Mr. Parker's kids would know more, they were either quite young or not yet born, esp. While still in Hawaii.

 

[Flying Crane]

Here we are read through the lines of this Ed Parker Sr. Kenpo Karate | LICENSING

As I say, good luck to them enforcing it.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

One thing I do find with kenpo is there are a lot of great techniques but there's a few awful ones that simply would not work. For gift in return is a techique against a hand grab and you step behind your opponent and bring their hand through their legs, it just wouldn't work and everyone I know who does kenpo says it, I think there's a few that definentely that could be cut from the system and when people ask why we have them they say oh it's for category completion but well it's a self defence art who cares about that if it doesn't work don't teach it I couldn't care less what categories it's completing lol maybe that's just me but yeah

Many arts have complex techniques that seem ineffective for defense. I have a theory about them - it comes in two parts (or maybe it's just two theories...I have a theory about that, too).

Some of those techniques are what I call "test of complexity" techniques. They are used as a device to see if a student can build the necessary sequence of movements - using the principles of the art - to make the technique work. In other words, they are there simply to push the student to work the principles without focusing on application.

Some of the complicated techniques are what I call "now what" techniques. They are there to put the student in strange situations and show how the principles of the art can still be applied. Their purpose is to help the student learn to find the application of principles in any odd situation, since we can never possibly train in all potential situations.

I don't know if either of those is correct, but that's how I've used those types of techniques in my training and teaching.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Well ed Parker himself says that Mitose trained him a lot so there's that but whatever if I'm wrong I'm wrong that one was one of my problems with kenpo so much political bs and lies I don't care about all that stuff I just want to train that's why kickboxing appeals more to me we just turn up train go home not get into big discussions about who taught who or who's lineage is what or any of that.

I have to agree with that attitude. While I think lineage is interesting, it only has importance to me in two areas: 1) it can help to understand why different branches of an art (even, of an association) approach the art differently when you know the lineage behind them; 2) if someone claims to have been trained by someone, I expect them to have been trained by that person, and lineage records give us a chance to check for truthfulness. I don't really care who they're trained by unless they make a claim.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I don't know if there is any truth to this or not. However, I believe such attempts would be impossible to enforce, with the possible exception of the use of the name "Ed Parker" in the official name of someone's school. However, people could always make a statement about having been his student, or somewhere in the downstream of lineage traced back to him.

If the family was really trying to do this, which I rather doubt, it is a big waste of time.

They might be able to get folks to not use the term "kempo", with the threat of legal action (based on cost, alone). They'd never be able to stop people from putting up their certificates, though. There's really no grounds for such action, so anyone receiving a cease and desist letter for having their certificate up could probably just ignore it.

 

[ShawnP]

Well, there have been a lot of soscussions about these issues both here and on kenpotalk, Ron Chapel posts over there and was apparently very close with Mr. Parker up until his death, and was with him from the early 1960s. Everyone from those early days has their take on what happened, so I view with that in mind, but I think Ron is a straight shooter. I don't know that Mr. Parker's kids would know more, they were either quite young or not yet born, esp. While still in Hawaii.

i went over to KenpoTalk and read some stuff on the matter, and there were some talks about a video posted and the video is no longer available for what ever reason but the comments about it were rather disturbing to me since i am unable to see the actual video. im wondering since you are aware of the site and probably the post im guessing, would you have access or know someone who has access to that video, i would really love to see it.
here is a link to the thread that posts the video.

Kara-Ho Kempo Karate

 

[Flying Crane]

They might be able to get folks to not use the term "kempo", with the threat of legal action (based on cost, alone). They'd never be able to stop people from putting up their certificates, though. There's really no grounds for such action, so anyone receiving a cease and desist letter for having their certificate up could probably just ignore it.

Kenpo or kempo is a term out in general use, far before Mr Parker ever used it. They would never be successful.

 

[Flying Crane]

i went over to KenpoTalk and read some stuff on the matter, and there were some talks about a video posted and the video is no longer available for what ever reason but the comments about it were rather disturbing to me since i am unable to see the actual video. im wondering since you are aware of the site and probably the post im guessing, would you have access or know someone who has access to that video, i would really love to see it.
here is a link to the thread that posts the video.

Kara-Ho Kempo Karate

I don't recall that video, its from a couple years ago.

 

[Tez3]

They might be able to get folks to not use the term "kempo", with the threat of legal action (based on cost, alone). They'd never be able to stop people from putting up their certificates, though. There's really no grounds for such action, so anyone receiving a cease and desist letter for having their certificate up could probably just ignore it.

Before the UFC came to do their first show here in UK they sent letter to all the promoters here saying we couldn't use the words 'Octagon' and 'Ultimate Fighting' on the pain of being sued. We ignored it and nothing came of it.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Kenpo or kempo is a term out in general use, far before Mr Parker ever used it. They would never be successful.

As I said, they might be able to deter people just by the cost of dealing with the litgation. There's no way I can see that they'd maange to win in court.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Before the UFC came to do their first show here in UK they sent letter to all the promoters here saying we couldn't use the words 'Octagon' and 'Ultimate Fighting' on the pain of being sued. We ignored it and nothing came of it.

I love that they tried to claim ownership of a geometric shape!