Hybrid SUV's?
- Thread starter shesulsa
- Start date
I was reading some magazine a few weeks ago that said the hybrid SUV's were only going to give drivers and extra 4 mi/gal. Not that big of an improvement if you ask me. Plus for the cost, I read it doesn't really balance out. Every little bit helps, but talk to me when the hybrid SUV's are getting an extra 10 or 20 mi/gal.
Ping898 said:
First off in the business, people get excited about 0.1 mpg improvement.
Next it takes energy to move mass.
It also takes energy to overcome aerodynamics of thsoe bricks moving down the road.
So when your SUV gets between 10 (* 4x4 Hummer in city *) to 18 (* Two wheel Drive mode pick-up *), a 4 mpg is huge, as on average they get about 16 mpg. Which is a 25% increase. Not enough, yes, but you have to make improvements.
I will check to see if what my company is doing for the large trucks and SUV's in MY 08. I knnow for the MY 09 Front Wheel Drive vehicles, they will offer an All Wheel Drive option. So, the I need to see what the Rear Wheel Drive Trucks & SUV's are doing about 4x4 or AWD.
Rich Parsons said:
First off I am not in the business so don't have to get excited about it.
Though I did forget to consider the proportional-ness of it. When a vehicle only gets 16 mi/gal, 4 more miles is a bigger deal than say 4 mi/gal on a car that get 30 mi/gal to begin with.
In the end though, last time I check (and this may have changed) the hybrid Suv's were going to cost like 10k more than a regular one and you know everyone is going to be lining up for them to show that they are more environmentally friendly or get the better gas mileage such as it is and thus you will have no negotiating room with dealers, much the same way with the other hybrids out there. I don't think the hybrid SUV's are worth the added expense, especially when you take into account that IMO people on average these days don't seem to hold onto their vehicles for 10 or 15 years so you'll never see the cost benefit of the extra expense versus saved gas until gas skyrockets.
I luv my Jeep Wrangler. I look forward to the day they make them hydrogen powered! 
But for now hybrid vehicles are just not capable as off-road vehicles. Yes... I do take my Wrangler off-road. However, the Jeep Wrangler is not a SUV, but an ORV (Off-Road Vehicle). SUVs are for the soccer moms. 
Just kidding, of course.
But for now hybrid vehicles are just not capable as off-road vehicles. Yes... I do take my Wrangler off-road. However, the Jeep Wrangler is not a SUV, but an ORV (Off-Road Vehicle). SUVs are for the soccer moms. Just kidding, of course.
Ping898 said:
Search for other hybrid threads, I did the math on the Honda Hybrind versus the base car of the same name.
The math does not make it really smart, unless you look at monthly payments people can plan versus the variables like gas cost and how many times you fill up.
What do you do in the business? PM me if you do not want it here. Just curious.
Thanks
still learning
Senior Master
Hello, Toyota Prius...check-out this car. Price is about $20,000.00 and has I believe the highest gas mileage out of all the hybrids.
Look nice too? .........Aloha
Look nice too? .........Aloha
Well check the following site even though their comparisons are not complete. Why I am not sure. http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/hybrid_sbs.shtml
The cars: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/hybrid_sbs_cars.shtml
The Trucks: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/hybrid_sbs_trucks.shtml
The SUV's: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/hybrid_sbs_SUVs.shtml (* Which I knnow is incomplete as GM has some out in 2005 that should also be compared. *)
Also check this site: http://www.bankrate.com/brm/news/auto/20030122a.asp
Also check out the saturn site: http://www.saturn.com/aboutus2/news/index.jsp?storyID=210
The cars: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/hybrid_sbs_cars.shtml
The Trucks: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/hybrid_sbs_trucks.shtml
The SUV's: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/hybrid_sbs_SUVs.shtml (* Which I knnow is incomplete as GM has some out in 2005 that should also be compared. *)
Also check this site: http://www.bankrate.com/brm/news/auto/20030122a.asp
Also check out the saturn site: http://www.saturn.com/aboutus2/news/index.jsp?storyID=210
(* Personal commments follow - they do not represent my company or anything offical from my present or past employers. *)
Also let us not forget the EV1 by GM. Infinite Miles per Gallon. 
This is the only car that complied with the California law of at least 2% of all vehicles had to be ZEV (* Zero tail pipe Emission Vehicle. *). GM Complied, while none of the others did.
The biggest complaints about this vehicles were that it could not be bought and had to be sold, and the cost of putting in the recharge unit.
The reason behind the lease only was the legal environment, and the disposal of the batteries. They being lead batteries as the best storage units on the markets and longest life for the time frame.
California removed the requirement, as even though GM made the vehicle they could not force people to buy them. The other commpanies did not make the investment.
After time Toyota and Honda get into Hybrids and are now seen as green, even when their trucks and large vehicles get worse emissions and or fuel economy then those made buy American Car companies.
So the market image is that GM, Ford, and even Chrysler(* Diamler *), are hugh cars and horrible gas and emissions, while the Germans have the power and Engineering, and the Japanese are all about fuel economy and emissions.
Yes, from the previous post, you can see where GM has invested its' money first in Large trucks and then Buses, and then to the Full Size Pcik up trucks. With a launch of a hybrid on the Saturn Vue as well. Then they rolled out the technology to the other vehicle platforms for future production.
My apologies for venting on this, but it is frustrating. While I agree people should buy what they want, and can afford, they should do so with open eyes and the best information out there.
Side VENT:
People all look at JD Power numbers for the industry, and now also Consumers Reports.
First to JD Power: The numbers on the most recent Chevy Nova were bad, while the Toyota Corolla were good. These vehicles were both made and designed by Toyota out of the Nummi Plant in California. Same vehicle, same design, just differnt customers with different expectations.
Now it is the ither way around, their is a slight lead for the Pontiac Vibe versus the Toyota Matrix that are both made at this plant.
So what does this mean? It means that different people have different expectations. Those that bought the Corolla thought of it as a good College starter car. Those that bought the Nova, wanted the old V8 Power, and to able to climb mountains off-road with it. Perceptions and expectations, that are questioned, and then tried to put into tabular format. If you like your car company you will rate it better. If you are am employee you might be upset over some minor things and rant and rave about it. It all varies. No real statistical repeatability.
As to Consumers Reports. I know they try to be fair. I know they do a good job of testing. Yet their comparisons are apples to lead bricks. When talking about the Toyota Tundra they will talk about power and towing capabilty and avoid fuel economy as a major hitter. While with the North American trucks they compare them to the Toyota Prius at 61 MPG and say they suck at fuel economy. Nice comparisons. Even their recent comparisons last fall about fuel economy they were saying the reported is nto the real world especially with hybrids, as the reported is based off of a standardized test. Then on the smae two pages they had another article that talked about buying the best vehicle and looking at the reported fuel economy. Duplicity is a favorite thorn I like to tug at.
On another issue as well, Volvo has the reputation of being the safest vehicles out there. Is this becuase of their design or the people that buy the safest car? And what about the Saab's that have won the Swedish safety awards in the last few years? Oh by the way Saab is also a GM Company, with GM common architecture.
Yet, it is hard to expect the average customer to know all this when Mr. York the face man of the highest stock holder in GM, makes comments about we need to sell Saab and Hummer. Saab is integrated into our global designs and have been, and Hummer as in H2 and H3 are built upon existing truck platforms. Real nice for the newest board member to not even knnow the product, but to just make sweeping statements, and get the press and wall street all shook up, while what he says is actually counter productive, and who would buy the name plates only?
Ok off my box for now.
Also let us not forget the EV1 by GM. Infinite Miles per Gallon.
This is the only car that complied with the California law of at least 2% of all vehicles had to be ZEV (* Zero tail pipe Emission Vehicle. *). GM Complied, while none of the others did.
The biggest complaints about this vehicles were that it could not be bought and had to be sold, and the cost of putting in the recharge unit.
The reason behind the lease only was the legal environment, and the disposal of the batteries. They being lead batteries as the best storage units on the markets and longest life for the time frame.
California removed the requirement, as even though GM made the vehicle they could not force people to buy them. The other commpanies did not make the investment.
After time Toyota and Honda get into Hybrids and are now seen as green, even when their trucks and large vehicles get worse emissions and or fuel economy then those made buy American Car companies.
So the market image is that GM, Ford, and even Chrysler(* Diamler *), are hugh cars and horrible gas and emissions, while the Germans have the power and Engineering, and the Japanese are all about fuel economy and emissions.
Yes, from the previous post, you can see where GM has invested its' money first in Large trucks and then Buses, and then to the Full Size Pcik up trucks. With a launch of a hybrid on the Saturn Vue as well. Then they rolled out the technology to the other vehicle platforms for future production.
My apologies for venting on this, but it is frustrating. While I agree people should buy what they want, and can afford, they should do so with open eyes and the best information out there.
Side VENT:
People all look at JD Power numbers for the industry, and now also Consumers Reports.
First to JD Power: The numbers on the most recent Chevy Nova were bad, while the Toyota Corolla were good. These vehicles were both made and designed by Toyota out of the Nummi Plant in California. Same vehicle, same design, just differnt customers with different expectations.
Now it is the ither way around, their is a slight lead for the Pontiac Vibe versus the Toyota Matrix that are both made at this plant.
So what does this mean? It means that different people have different expectations. Those that bought the Corolla thought of it as a good College starter car. Those that bought the Nova, wanted the old V8 Power, and to able to climb mountains off-road with it. Perceptions and expectations, that are questioned, and then tried to put into tabular format. If you like your car company you will rate it better. If you are am employee you might be upset over some minor things and rant and rave about it. It all varies. No real statistical repeatability.
As to Consumers Reports. I know they try to be fair. I know they do a good job of testing. Yet their comparisons are apples to lead bricks. When talking about the Toyota Tundra they will talk about power and towing capabilty and avoid fuel economy as a major hitter. While with the North American trucks they compare them to the Toyota Prius at 61 MPG and say they suck at fuel economy. Nice comparisons. Even their recent comparisons last fall about fuel economy they were saying the reported is nto the real world especially with hybrids, as the reported is based off of a standardized test. Then on the smae two pages they had another article that talked about buying the best vehicle and looking at the reported fuel economy. Duplicity is a favorite thorn I like to tug at.
On another issue as well, Volvo has the reputation of being the safest vehicles out there. Is this becuase of their design or the people that buy the safest car? And what about the Saab's that have won the Swedish safety awards in the last few years? Oh by the way Saab is also a GM Company, with GM common architecture.
Yet, it is hard to expect the average customer to know all this when Mr. York the face man of the highest stock holder in GM, makes comments about we need to sell Saab and Hummer. Saab is integrated into our global designs and have been, and Hummer as in H2 and H3 are built upon existing truck platforms. Real nice for the newest board member to not even knnow the product, but to just make sweeping statements, and get the press and wall street all shook up, while what he says is actually counter productive, and who would buy the name plates only?
Ok off my box for now.
Also check this wiki about hybrids: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_car
Bigshadow said:SUVs are for the soccer moms.
Minivans in denial?
Fuel effiecient SUV:
